General Discussion

General Discussion1k games are harder than 3k.

1k games are harder than 3k. in General Discussion
eXcel

    Also in that game while being massively behind you got tree dance cast range talent, but did not go for primal spring damage talent. Why not get it and just stall the game by cutting waves?[/Also in that game while being massively behind you got tree dance cast range talent, but did not go for primal spring damage talent. Why not get it and just stall the game by cutting waves?

    Might have been the better choice, but I find Boundless to be more reliable for team fights given primal's channel time.

    I also don't disagree with what you're saying. I even said myself the biggest factor holding them back is their own mental weakness and tendency to flame.

    One more point, when was the last time you were in the 1k bracket? I can't help but feel like you're assuming 1k players are decent. They are objectively much worse than average and I wouldn't say parma is much worse than average, maybe only slightly :)

    play for fun

      thats the point. you are not 3k because you are 1k. you are not at level of 3kmmr player if u dont have 3kmmr. its that simple. see if i make a smurf and get it to vhs, do i have the right to say im fucking 10kmmr player because rtz plays in vhs too?

      SayingPleaseHelps

        @ OP
        There are no logical points. Whatever points there are are either already refuted or in process of refutation. And scientific methodology applies to everything. Which you would have known if you were aware what it is.

        You are 1k, by definition, you have that rating. But it is very simple to prove you are 3k. If you have any games where you performed overall on 3k level. I just skimmed through Vertoxity's game. Check it out. If you were to have that kind of performance consistently I would have placed you at 4k in an instant. I even have agreed with some here that your csing in free or weakly contested lanes is decent enough, maybe even of 3k level, but you compensate for that by being utterly horrible at everything else. I expect your effective rating for games where you do not get a free lane to be way lower that 1k due to how abysmal you understanding of what happens in DOTA is.

        So, you probably should not answer my question this time, 13 is unlucky number after all: Can you provide anything to corroborate your original assertion about being on the level of 3k players? Outside of your atrocious performance in those 4 games and getting carried in parties that you interpreted as doing well, but anyone with eyes saw as being a shitter? Anything that may be considered methodologically sound?

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        SayingPleaseHelps

          @ .eXceL

          when was the last time you were in the 1k bracket
          Never, I'm afraid. I was close like 4 years ago, when I made a new account to play with my low-ranked friend. But I did witness another friend's relapse into DOTA this year, where he found out ranked is a thing, calibrated to herald 4 and promptly climbed to archon 1 over couple of months playing clinkz with dominator+deso. And it looked as gross as you can expect. It would take losing all the towers and rax for them to figure out his gameplan. Still fewer repetitions than OP has with tping to safe jungle shrine only to not learn that it's a bad idea.

          They are objectively much worse than average and I wouldn't say parma is much worse than average, maybe only slightly
          Well, csing like a 3k is a big thing, can't deny that. But I would say that OP is indeed much worse than average in everything else. I mean, pushing until death, respawning and pushing until death again is a more useful thing that farming own safe jungle while behind, and that thing is on the very worst side of the spectrum. When a person consistently picks one of the worst or the worst option out of all available I would say that qualifies them for being worse than average. Way worse than average.

          I expect that this appearance of knowing what to do in the game is a result of 3000+ games of "just doing" it without rhyme or reason. I think the idea that DOTA is a resourse management game that has and least gold, exp, item slots, what's in those item slots, skillset, map positioning, vision and way more dynamic resources to manage has never visited OP. DOTA is a game about killing things to them. That's why when they see a thing they can think they can kill, they go for it, regardless if they are expected to die in the process. And if they can't kill it they just let it do whatever it wants.

          They can lasthit well. That's the easy thing to notice. That's even the advice I gave them in my first posts, before I actually watched their games. Because that's the thing we teach new players first. Get the farm and you will naturally see how this resourse management game unfolds based on comparative farm and exp levels. But OP missed that station. They emulated farming in lane, repeated the easy thing, and failed to learn to do anything with it. So when we look at their cs in lane it's natural to think "Oh, that on a 3k level, that alone should carry them to 3k". But the poor soul has a learning disability, so she missed out on all the rest that should follow from lane farm. Thus we end up with this unfortunate predicament.

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          Duster!

            This is true if you support or some dumb stuff. 1k mmr mid must be easy as poop, enemy mid is basically a jungle camp.

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            '96 Neve Campbell

              This is true if you support or some dumb stuff. 1k mmr mid must be easy as poop.
              Yeah it is. Shockingly I lost a mid lane today but that was too a 88% wr invoker - in general it is near impossible to lose mid to a conventional mid in 1k. The only time I lose mid is if the other midlaner does substantially more damage to me or is a nuisance hero. Stuff like Invoker, Viper, Kunkka and Broodmother have beaten me because someone with half a brain could win mid with these heros.

              Duster!

                Lastpick as mid.

                Akai赤井`(mode-fp mid)

                  Stuff like Invoker, Viper, Kunkka and Broodmother have beaten me because someone with half a brain could win mid with these heros.

                  What? Invoker is pretty hard hero to play, you actually. Same goes for Brood and Kunkka.

                  Yeah it is. Shockingly I lost a mid lane today but that was too a 88% wr invoker - in general it is near impossible to lose mid to a conventional mid in 1k

                  Interestingly enough how you changed your mind. Read your posts from the very start of this thread, you will soon realize how wrong you were backthen :

                  Winning

                    Do you find their comments help you ?

                    ETd

                      She’s being blind and deaf to the insightful comments, or arrogantly rejecting them with deluded reasonings. How will the comments help?

                      Akai赤井`(mode-fp mid)

                        The jurney is complete. I managed to climb from literally 2 digit mmr (20) to 3000

                        Took me about a year because I didn't play much and consistently, but this is a cute msg to anyone saying 1k/2k is impossible to get out:

                        It's not, it's actually pretty easy and fun.

                        We'll see how much it'll take me to get to the 4k, and eventually to 4.2k which is my main mmr atm.

                        I'm quite curious will I be able to surpass my main MMR and how much it'll take me to get to 4k mmr.

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                        play for fun

                          The only time I lose mid is if the other midlaner does substantially more damage to me or is a nuisance hero. Stuff like Invoker, Viper, Kunkka and Broodmother have beaten me because someone with half a brain could win mid with these heros.

                          if u cant at least draw a matchup where you're completely countered against a fucking 1kmmr guy then you're trash lmao.

                          '96 Neve Campbell

                            Do you find their comments help you ?
                            Of course! Some people have been really useful!

                            Talker

                              How to get actually 1k account or lower? I am courious, this is my 1st account and I ended up calibrating 2.3k mmr playing shits like meepo and AM offlane and similar...

                              Akai赤井`(mode-fp mid)

                                ^

                                idk i just bought 20 mmr acc for 10$

                                varjager

                                  And i have learned that everyone actually got really high mmr its just that they havent raised it yet.

                                  play for fun

                                    reading this thread ignited a spark somewhere within me and now i believe myself to be at level of 7k players because i listen to anime music like eternal envy when i play

                                    play for fun

                                      wait no actually i listen to bad anime music so it's 17k mmr like arteezy and ee combined

                                      Suck my tiny curry dick

                                        I’m 29k. I would have won ti but I hurt my wrist.

                                        Yami Yugi

                                          giggle giggle giggle XD

                                          SayingPleaseHelps

                                            If you don't play enough consecutive games on a single server you are not eligible to appear on leaderboads no matter how high on the MMRs you are. I'm actually 65413 MMR on my smurf, the world just does not know yet. I'm waiting for the overflow, doubt they dynamically allocate storage for the MMRs.

                                            A

                                              3k games(low 3k) is actually more easy than 1k

                                              SayingPleaseHelps

                                                @Jenderal Kardus A new challenger arrives! You got any reasons to say that?

                                                3k games(low 3k) is actually more easy than 1k

                                                eXcel

                                                  Just when you thought the forums were safe again...

                                                  SayingPleaseHelps

                                                    So apparently Match ID 4137412921 happened.

                                                    In this baffling tale of vanity, betrayal and, of course, Failure, our poor starving OP sports the new star-winged Mirana mount, Pulsar Remnant Mirana bow, Darkfall Warden set for the rest of her Mirana slots, ALL of DOTA+ Mirana runes and absolutely no clue about playing Mirana the hero. Supposedly playing the support role in the 5 man stack, OP decides to not support their mid Monkey King on his daring attempt to contest enemy rune, despite skilling arrow back in base, and afks own rune instead. Poor .eXceL feeds first blood as the result and even skills Primal Spring in a failed attempt to escape, crippling his laning against Alchemist.

                                                    Having got only a set of tangoes and a mango for regen, OP struggles to decide whether trading with enemy support is a good idea and goes for some lasthits first, but the allure of missing no setup arrows on cd is too high, so they move onto that. At 3:30 somebody reminds OP they can arrow the hard camp, so they start doing actually useful thing instead. OP also follows some kind of advice on skillbuild, maxing starstorm without any understanding why. (They would end the game using it for farm thrice - contesting a camp early on, pushing T2 top at 23:50 and pushing out the wave hitting the rax at 33 minutes)

                                                    Partaking in running around like a headless chicken while taunting wildly, OP manages to stay level 5 until 13:50 - their dedication to support-like stats is truly admirable, even few hard camps could not help.
                                                    Getting Urn after PT+Aquila OP decides that they need more damage before enigma gets BKB and Alchemist gets unstoppable so they queue Hurricane Pike - starting from the wraith band of course.

                                                    An arrow miss on a stationary hard camp in their safe jungle turns out to be a brilliant mindgame, allowing OP to dodge AAs ulty, when he tries to snipe them on the retreat.

                                                    By 40 minutes, when the unstoppable tide of gifted Aghs is already taking over the map under the banner of BKB Enigma OP's support items contribution is limited to 2 obs and 2 dusts. They also got 1 salve and 2 mangos worth of regen at this point. Deciding firmly that they possess a teamfight defining skill OP throws away shackles of support designation and goes for an Aeon Disk.

                                                    But their doom can not be averted. Time and time again the good guys defend, losing some more of the map in the process. Time and time again the cursed Alchemist lineup still gets ahead nonetheless. Eventually with 6 deaths, the least on her team, OP's 285 GPM Mirana is finally swept away by the currents of history at 48:46, but even that can not silence the defiant "gg ez ursa", as the OP flames their Ancient 3 partymate (that guy had 4,6k solo at one point so it seems to be a legit medal).

                                                    "A brilliant presentation of simultaneous external struggle against an unstoppable force, and internal - against personal delusion" - concludes Joe Morgenstern
                                                    "Sometimes it becomes hard to watch, but that hardship stems only from dramatic excellence" - muses Peter Howell
                                                    "This story examining blindness people exhibit in regards to their own inability is very important in current political climate" - Trump-bashes Peter Travers
                                                    "Leave the girl alone, can't you see how beautiful that mount is? Worthy of a queen!" adds some r/niceguys-frequenting user wishing to remain anonymous.

                                                    Watch it today before the replay expires. On DOTATV under Match ID 4137412921 in every DOTA client. For Free! "Pride, Pride, Pride and right at the end just a tiny little bit of Prejudice"

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                                                    SayingPleaseHelps

                                                      Joking aside, in Match ID 4137412921 OP did consistently attack-move, something entirely missing from their solo games. Maybe they are indeed more inclined to perform well when in parties, although they do not seem to have any problems with flaming party members, so I have no idea.

                                                      That discrepancy is only gonna make both accepting their solo rank and overcoming it more difficult, I'm afraid.

                                                      SayingPleaseHelps

                                                        Also, @.eXceL, when you just skill Primal Spring for the first time, does it count previous damage sources to put it on CD or is it as with getting Bink from the courier and you can use it right away?

                                                        Marshall may have Mathered

                                                          An arrow miss on a stationary hard camp in their safe jungle turns out to be a brilliant mindgame, allowing OP to dodge AAs ulty, when he tries to snipe them on the retreat.

                                                          Ayy

                                                          eXcel

                                                            Lol to the above analysis.

                                                            FWIW, the Ursa was a guy on my friends list who directly asked me to play with the stack. I probably met him in solo queue a long time ago but I honestly didn't remember him. Anyway, his overall team awareness was kinda terrible so I imagine he's one of those 4k players who are mechanically sound players but actually not that great team players. Anyway, I digress...

                                                            Also, @.eXceL, when you just skill Primal Spring for the first time, does it count previous damage sources to put it on CD or is it as with getting Bink from the courier and you can use it right away?

                                                            Doesn't count previous damage sources, but it still has a cast animation which can does count damage sources incoming and thus I couldn't escape. #sadreactsonly #stillwonmid

                                                            SayingPleaseHelps

                                                              Well, I tested it myself already. That was just unlucky timing.

                                                              #stillwonmid
                                                              Would be surprising if you didn't win mid as an MK vs non-ursa melee. Could have delayed Alch by couple minutes more though, if not for that unfortunate occurrence, couldn't you?

                                                              Lol to the above analysis.
                                                              Do you think it needs more flavour? I feel like the one for LC game on page 11 has more zing to it. This one left me a bit disapponted.

                                                              Ursa may have underperformed, I guess he is one of the guys who climb on farm efficiency, he still had like 450 gpm with 14 deaths in a non-game on a slow-farming hero. But you can't really blame him - he had a non-game. 4 heroes who can kite him and an AA who built ghost+euls. So 5 kiters overall.

                                                              eXcel

                                                                But you can't really blame him

                                                                I wouldn't blame his mechanical abilities or his farm or anything, but I was making a lot of space and he wasn't using it efficiently whatsoever. When we said this to him he said something like you didn't help me why should I help you and proceeded to jungle farm/waste time. All he really needed to do with blink on ANY priority target as we engage and even if he died it should have given the rest of us enough direction in the fight to win it out. Anyway, bygones be bygones.

                                                                Do you think it needs more flavour?

                                                                Won't lie I haven't read all your walls of text but I'll check out the one on page 11 and let you know.

                                                                On a side note you seem fun enough to play with, feel free to add if you want to play some and call out my every mistake mid game.

                                                                eXcel

                                                                  I had expectations of grandeur so I prefer the one on this page

                                                                  SayingPleaseHelps

                                                                    I guess it's just because of the same pattern then. Page 11 was first for me so I like it more, but was second for you.

                                                                    Or maybe the good old "farming safe jungle" joke got worn out in other posts of mine.

                                                                    You gonna play today? I'm looking for an opportunity to return back to actually playing dota instead of watching, so having an actual good player to blame for all the faults sounds like a great safety net.

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                                                                    Suck my tiny curry dick

                                                                      Love your work, keep it up!!!

                                                                      eXcel

                                                                        Yeah, will be playing in about an hour or so

                                                                        SayingPleaseHelps

                                                                          Love your work, keep it up!!!

                                                                          That will take OP posting some of the more ridiculous games of theirs. The page 11 post got inspired by OPs "afk" remark while afking in the jungle all day and this one - by betrayal of .eXceL's invade attempt lvl1.

                                                                          But I can't really watch all of OP games in search of these outstanding moments, it will take somebody else stepping up to the plate and posting the more remarkable things here.

                                                                          Rally together, brothers! United we will exhaust Rotten Tomatoes Top Critics list in no time and I'll be forced to ascribe these bullshit quotes to some no-name shmucks.

                                                                          Wukz

                                                                            why is this thread still up

                                                                            play for fun

                                                                              so new friendships can form

                                                                              Suck my tiny curry dick

                                                                                Because please help is keeping it alive. This thread has become one of the more interesting ones.

                                                                                Suck my tiny curry dick

                                                                                  Some guy was asking me how Mexican cock taste and why I like Indian cock. Asked him to be friends to trade pics and he rejected me. Felt a little hurt but hopefully I can meet someone tonight.

                                                                                  SayingPleaseHelps

                                                                                    why is this thread still up
                                                                                    Why wouldn't it be up?

                                                                                    Lots of fun and lots of on topic posts on basically every page here. It's not like the question of ELO Hell will ever be decided conclusively (at least in the minds of those complaining about it). It's supply and demand, basically.

                                                                                    varjager

                                                                                      Kinda offtopic but it would be nice if someone would analyze any of my recent ranked games and give some pointers.

                                                                                      Marshall may have Mathered

                                                                                        well it seems that you are bad, i can tell considering i am bad as well

                                                                                        Akai赤井`(mode-fp mid)

                                                                                          Well I'll analyze @SayingPleaseHelps

                                                                                          Last game. :-) Let's see how he did.

                                                                                          at @ 3:49 MK gets a kill on Lion, you refuse to go back and both of you ends up dying. Playing against NP and not having a qualing or at least tangoes aswell.

                                                                                          You shoud've predicted that after MK died and was low HP your best move is to go back. Instead you end up feeding gold and XP.

                                                                                          @ 4;22 not using a tp to benefit from creeps dying from the tower to get at least XP is bad (MK had a CD on a TP)

                                                                                          Still not buying qualing(no money) but you had enough money for tangoes at least

                                                                                          @ 4:90 you go for the enemy run despite the fact you knew you're going to face ogre and Lion. Ends up being dead and forcing MK to react

                                                                                          You could've just taken your rune and went back to the lane. Again feeding XP and gold (mk kinda of gets the return kill but still)

                                                                                          at around @ 6:00 you decide to go behind the enemy tower and you start cutting incoming waves. At lvl 3, you're just weak to tank up harasment from both lion+ogre, but since they don't capitalize immediately on your bad decison, MK gets the lion kill and you die again(even tho if you used your salve to heal you'd likely be fine) - instead, you stay at 30% of the HP and don't even go back for like 10 sec, and it ends up with you dying again.

                                                                                          At @ 6:95 you still have no boots, because you prioratize magic wand over boots, meaning you'll be even easier to die.

                                                                                          at @ 7:50 you decide to initate for no reason, which ends up you dying once again while forcing MK to react: he does get a double kill but ends up feeding 600+ gold and ton of XP to the Ogre while you also gave about 200 gold and some XP to the Phantom Lancer

                                                                                          At this point you're 0-5 and levlel 4 8 minutes into the game. The correct play was to get boots, magic stick, qualing, tangoes so you can keep constantly your HP high and just trade with supports until you either force them to go on you or just naturally with time, they'll end up underleveld cuz they're trilaning which would end up you and MK winning the lane even more.

                                                                                          You kinda of won the lane, but only because they were bad and MK was fast on his fingers to cover up your mistakes.

                                                                                          @ 8:10 you buy bracer for no reason, still no boots.

                                                                                          @ 8:50

                                                                                          You bait lion and ogre to throw almost everything at you and MK immediately capitalizes on that with one easy kill. That was what you shoud've done earlier on, instead, you had weird initiations that always ended up with you dying because you forced the MK to react instead of baiting the spells from the enemy supports and staying alive

                                                                                          @ 9:30 you kill the PL because he's a monkey and because you already killed one support so it was easy to bait him

                                                                                          @ 10:20 you see wild ogre with haste, you immediately follow up with call when in range and you end up dying

                                                                                          Correct play: wait him to get close to you,see if he'll use stan, if he uses the stan eary, just call and tp away. At least you can have some sort of chance to survive. This way you die 100%

                                                                                          @ 13:26

                                                                                          You clearly see PL showing into your jungle, yet you go and die. I don't understand reasoning behind this. You can't kill him because more than 50% of your HP pool is missing and he'll use 1st to remove even more HP and kill you easily anyways. You clearly don't care so you end up feeding him once again

                                                                                          From @ 15:00 up to 16:30 you run around in circles and a minute and half later you finally die becuase you are out of position again. 1-8-10 is your KDA, and despite the fact you had 10 assists under your belt, 70% of them were results of MK trying to fix things after your bad positioning, initiations and missplay in general.

                                                                                          Next 2 minutes or more follows up with one more weird bracer and some more brainless running around in circles while dying once again and having no impact at all

                                                                                          19:38 you buy weird cloak for no reason, another 500 gold wasted.

                                                                                          21:10 you rotate for no reason, I guess just intuitivly you decide that that's the best action, regardless of you still not having a blink dagger which you could've farmed by now if you didn't run around in circles for most of your time while eventually dying becuase you either tunel vision, overextend or end up being in a bad place.

                                                                                          They win a fight, but not thanks to you, while you start to push bot lane at least.

                                                                                          At 22:something you finally buy blink and you end up selling one of the bracers. Do the math why.

                                                                                          @ 24:00 - 25:00 some more random running around in circles with your team doing everything for you, while having still having no impact. Running in circles ends up when you die, of course because you were out of position again :)

                                                                                          @ 26:50 finally a good call to kill annoying PL. You realize you're out of slot, so weird and stupid CLOAK ends up in your backpack which ends up, obviously, slowing down more important items such as:

                                                                                          BLADEMAIL, CRIMSON GUARD( SUPER GOOD VS PL)

                                                                                          27:40 you start pushing, you don't check enemies for TP's or anything, and because of that you were too afraid to push futher, so you end up going into your jungle instead. While I can respect the decison, if you checked TP's you'd realise you could push at least one more wave before going back.

                                                                                          At 31:00 you don't go for easy kill on Furion.

                                                                                          I'm lazy to go past 33:00, game was already won.

                                                                                          Even tho you're quite good at writing/analyzing things, you're quite bad at this game, at least from what I've seen in this game.

                                                                                          I'd rate this Axe gameplay to approximately 1.5-2k MMR at worst, and maybe 2.5k at best.

                                                                                          '96 Neve Campbell

                                                                                            ^pogchamp^

                                                                                            SayingPleaseHelps

                                                                                              @ Vertoxity
                                                                                              That first Furion rotation still gives me flashbacks. I could have given some excuses for my poor performance, like not playing for a month or playing support Axe for the first time ever or playing support Axe against Ogre trilane, but to be honest, your top estimate seems generous based on that game. I had 9 unnecessary deaths, ffs, I played like shit.

                                                                                              However, I'll have to disagree with Cloak and Blademail/Crimson arguments. Their team is mostly magic and PL got behind due to the bloodbath in bot lane. As a save/counterinitiator hero I would have to go for Pipe/Glimmer vs a Necro anyways, so why not get an early cloak to survive for a few more seconds in fights? (Bloodbath in botlane remember?) More that that, getting Blademail after blink was arguably a mistake, since I'm Support Axe is mostly his Call, there are other damage sources on our team, but no prospective Pipe carriers. Pipe also obviously takes priority over Crimson, PL got consistently shut down and was mosly a problem for the mana drain. Crimson does not protect against that.

                                                                                              @OP Got something substantial to say?

                                                                                              Speaking of substantial, unlucky number is gone, feel free to enlighten the audience. 14th attempt btw: Can you provide anything to corroborate your original assertion about being on the level of 3k players? Outside of your atrocious performance in those 4 games and getting carried in parties that you interpreted as doing well, but anyone with eyes saw as being a shitter? Anything that may be considered methodologically sound?

                                                                                              '96 Neve Campbell

                                                                                                I watched your axe game. Perhaps you should be asking yourself that question.

                                                                                                Akai赤井`(mode-fp mid)

                                                                                                  I'm Support Axe

                                                                                                  There's no such thing as support Axe my dude.

                                                                                                  Their team is mostly magic and PL got behind due to the bloodbath in bot lane.

                                                                                                  Cloak won't give you anything. You don't die because of magical spells in that particular game, you die because of many disables they have. Cloak would change literally nothing in my opinion. Glimmer, however, is a different story, and I could respect going for that.

                                                                                                  Blademail after blink was arguably a mistake

                                                                                                  It wasn't. I'm not Axe player nor offlaner, but in my humble opinion blademail can't be bad on axe. Maybe if you had crimson guard, you could tank up some damage earlier, but blademail was fine. Issue is - blademail came too late.

                                                                                                  Pipe also obviously takes priority over Crimson

                                                                                                  Not in this game in my opinion. It's not like you're playing against Zeus, Tinker, Phoenix... They have magical spells, but those are mostly based on a single target, meaning it won't stop you from sieging the highground or anything. If you really want to dodge that spells(which I could respect), BKB or linkens - not a casual cloak that will slow down your main weapon - blink dagger. Same goes for bracers.

                                                                                                  your top estimate seems generous based on that game. I had 9 unnecessary deaths, ffs, I played like shit.

                                                                                                  It was aproximate guess but if I'd go any lower I think I'd be unfair. Your general Dota knowledge seems to be pretty good, I took into coinsideration you're just rusty.

                                                                                                  Akai赤井`(mode-fp mid)

                                                                                                    Btw, my current solo mmr on this account is 3.1k I'm 1.1k lower compared to my main. If someone wants to watch this game:

                                                                                                    https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4139058726

                                                                                                    I'm proud of it. Would love for the @ SayingPleaseHelps

                                                                                                    To analyze it. I really love your analytical aproach man.

                                                                                                    I'll say in advance that I had some questionable/bad plays, but I think I had some good ones too.

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                                                                                                    Yami Yugi

                                                                                                      who mention my Firebird? oh its you Bacon lovers <3 @ham salad sandwich

                                                                                                      It's not like you're playing against Zeus, Tinker, Phoenix...
                                                                                                      Oh yes, my phoenix punish Axe like sun shining over Octopus in the dessert :D

                                                                                                      Rusty... Yeah I can relate, because I am also rusty @SayingPleaseHelps