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    1st comment here


      the comment above me is mega gay


        too bad 7.21 is out now


          7.21 fixed a shit ton of these.

          offlaner ≠ supp

            I wonder whether the popularity of Grimstroke in the previous Major helps in killing the viability of Broodmama...

            Red Bull

              here i hoped for support luna being the topic lul


                Strength heroes got shat on last patch. Hopefully 7.21 does them better

                MM.Ugh Brock Hall


                  I mean, team tank was the big winner at the major I thought. Vlads was heavily nerfed in 721 for a reason, and a decent amount of strength heroes benefited from that item


                    Ha! I knew it wasn't just me. The support picks were so damn boring.


                      Broodmother and Lycan are just outclassed by Beastmaster. They both make a lot of sense in push meta but Beastmaster does it better because he is much stronger in teamfights than the previous two.

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                      i am sworn to burden your...

                        "Ogre Magi still offers a great body"



                          Speaking about Strength core heroes not preferable for Post 1 (compared to Agi cores) & Post 3 (compared to Str utility heroes), the new patch 7.21 doesn't seems to fix this, in my opinion.

                          Icy removes the 25% advantage on primary attributes, and increase Str to HP translation (from 18 to 20 HP). Hence now all hero have higher HP than before, while Str heroes doesn't receive their advantage HP from primary stat as they used to. This is a nerf for most Str (especially the cores).

                          While Agi cores doesn't really affected (by this loss of 25% primary advantage), since the stacking of Wraith Bands can just easily solve their Agi, armor, and AtkSpeed requirement at early to mid game.

                          Was dead for months

                            Testing smth




                                7.21 alch and Ursa feel so much better

                                Gym 5 days, Rest 2 days

                                  "Bloodseeker is a good laner, but he can’t be a part of a trilane in the current patch—the hero needs his XP early on to have a chance of having an impact on the game. He can be a solo offlaner in a 1v1, but he is outclassed by many heroes in terms of both tempo and utility. He also potentially loses many mid matchups and is incredibly susceptible to ganks."

                                  Bloodseeker is one of the best heroes when he is ahead. He is one of the worst heroes to play from behind with.

                                  In the only patch where bloodseeker was considered a top pick (TI5/6.84) it was because he easily got such a large damage boost from even 1 or 2 levels in thirst so that he would usually reliably have anywhere between 90-100 damage at level 3. Combined with the extra damage from bloodrage and a quelling blade this meant that he could cs for something like 150 damage, it was simply not possible to win a lane against him. I remember playing a mid match up where I crushed an SF so badly I had treads aquila and a yasha by the time he had treads and a bottle. One mid match up against a CK he had 10 cs by 10 minutes.

                                  This incredible lane winning ability then allowed him to snowball in farm, rack up kills, and close the game out before the enemy carry had time to farm and comeback.

                                  Now as a carry his carry skill thirst doesn't kick in until team fights are well underway since he doesn't get any bonus until an enemy is at 75% hp. Even then he is only at full strength once an enemy is at 25% hp. By the time an enemy is 25% hp they are almost dead, so bloodseeker being at his strongest at this point is moot - once an enemy has lost 75% of their health a fight is almost always won anyway. In comparison basically every other carry starts a fight dealing their maximum damage output.

                                  The difficulty from not fighting at full strength from the start of a fight is part of what makes his susceptibility to ganks even worse. The point of rupture is to force an enemy to stand still for 12 seconds to allow bloodseeker to attack them without interruption or running away - which makes it theoretically very good against mobile heroes like AM, Void, PA, Slark, Mirana, QoP, Spirit Breaker etc). However when the enemy gets the jump on bloodseeker through an initiation or gank rupture does nothing - the enemy already wants to stick close to the bloodseeker. The bloodseeker and their team then have to while at half/low etc health turn around and start dealing enough damage to the enemy to proc thirst so that bloodseeker can get strong enough to win the fight. Obviously if the enemy are far enough ahead or do enough burst damage in the initiation the bloodseeker is never able to get the damage.

                                  None of his skills are suitable for protecting himself if he is initiated on. If an enemy is able to stand and fight against bloodseeker because they are more heavily farmed or have abilities which are suitable for manfighting (heroes like Lifestealer, Ursa, CK, Wraith King, even Death Prophet etc) then rupture does nothing and his ultimate is effectively a damageless ability which only effect is to make an enemy stand still for 12 seconds.

                                  After 6.84 the thirst scaling was changed to 75-25 and the early game damage was no longer reliably given. This made it very difficult to win mid match ups. There have been some occasions since when he has sometimes been picked professionally sometimes after about 10 tiny buffs in a row (eg patch 7.16 when bloodrage was buffed to permanently apply and his level 10 talent provided 8 armour) but for the most part the hero is ignored in professional dota and high level pubs, and only played in low level pubs where there is a tendency to stand around in lane on 30% hp and the lack of coordination allows him to still snowball off of out of position enemies.

                                  Until the thirst skill is fixed so that the hero is able to snowball as a carry again he's never going to be picked as a pos 1. Until he gets a buff to his skills or stats to allow him to contest mid lane he is never going to be picked as a pos 2. Unless he gets a change to one of his skills to allow him to provide more in team fights than an easily dodgeable nuke/silence, or an improvement to laning to make him less susceptible to ganking he's never going to be picked as a pos 3.

                                  Sadly the most recent change he got was to change his extra attack to extra attack speed. For comparison this means that if all of the enemies are low HP he attacks about as fast as what alchemist does normally just with his ultimate, or what Lina attacks after casting 3 spells and taking the extra stacks talent. On top of that it no longer applies if an enemy BKBs so in team fights its even less likely to be active when it matters, and while the reduction of the incoming damage in bloodrage makes him less susceptible to being blow up it also reduces his damage output significantly.

                                  Sadly while almost all of the other above heroes above received major or minor buffs in the 7.21 patch, some of which have led to massive winrate spikes in pubs bloodseeker received only a tiny movespeed increase which effectively just undid a nerf he received in patch 7.07. You would think that the fact that after all the big changes he received in the 7.20 patch and he still wasn't picked a single time might suggest that those changes leave him weak, underpowered, and unviable - but no, based on Icefrog's response the hero is fine and just needed a previous minor nerf undone.

                                  It's blatantly obvious that Icefrog is never going to allow bloodseeker to ever be considered even a situational pick for pro dota.

                                  aikyu3 SuBi ♪

                                    ^ This essay get a B+ cause you are not Asian.


                                      Broodmother is nowhere as dominant in the lane as she used to be, as new spiders are considerably weaker. The fact that there is also more gold around the map makes her enemy jungle occupation far less significant. In general, the faster tempo of current meta with most cores outscaling her combined with her weaker early game, makes her window to shine extremely narrow. Additionally the popularity of supports that deal well with her like earthshaker, kotl and grimmstroke makes her very unreliable in the current meta.


                                        WK CANT PUSH...OK...nice info....
                                        Author 2k pts player ?