General DiscussionRoof, Treant protector nerf?

indeed it's broken but why don't you find a stack and abuse him?
let me give you some suggestions
Slark/Treant/Wisp
Troll/Treant/Wisp
hf with insta win

It's his only relatively good skill and you want it to get nerfed? Counter pick, learn to play against it or keep your mouth shut.

treant is still a big walking melee creep

go for the

gyro/magnus/troll/wisp/treant combo, works everytime

Actually, Treant needs a buff.

Leech Seed needs to be removed entirely, and be replaced with a different spell:

"Transform"

Treant can take the place of a 400 AoE of trees anywhere on the map.
This needs to be implemented ASAP, because it's too pro.

nah better skill is

"Death Armor"

Tree suicides himself, heals full team 100% and gives an automatic 5 second glyth

Living armor is actually an aggressive skill, used properly. It allows you to dive towers and take bigger risks. Like so many other changes recently it encourages people to take fights instead of farming in hiding. Icefrog will not nerf it unless and until many pro teams are picking tree all the time.

The clear standard rational for nerfs is, which heroes are always picked in pro games and why? what could make them just weak enough to not be the best option while still keeping their signature skill? The standard for buffs is which heroes are never picked in pro games and why? what could make them viable without basically changing what the hero does?

Tree is still not used enough in pro games. Leech seed is supposed to be used as a heal but it had a significant weakness. The new patch removes that weakness. This makes it very useful as essentially a free mech. I already do this to heal up the team and the creep wave just before we take a tower, but it is going to be much easier to use now that the heal does not stop when a creep dies to it.

Tree is now the highest winrate hero in Diamond games (65% win), but pros still have not totally figured out how to use it. Part of this is because he takes the spot in most line-ups occupied currently by clockwork. Now that clockwork cogs are nerfed a little maybe some will consider trees.

u guys are crazy thinking tree is any good even with buffed leach seed and living armor. he has no anti push or push, essentially no team fight since his ult just hold u there without stunning or damage (small radius too). he also have no stuns, a weak slow, AND needs level to be "useful" therefore he can only play position 2 or 3.

he is a walking melee creep, plain and simple

Yup.

He is a walking melee creep who can disarm the entire enemy team for over 4 seconds.
He is a walking melee creep who can turn the entire allied team invisible.
He is a walking melee creep who can heal towers to full health.

It also necessitates the use of the term "walking" to differentiate him from "stationary" melee creeps.

Yup.

He is a walking melee creep who can disarm the entire enemy team for over 4 seconds.

can still cast spells, attack, etc

He is a walking melee creep who can turn the entire allied team invisible.

no tree ever do that, and seriously isnt even useful. wait, do tree even level nature guise?

He is a walking melee creep who can heal towers to full health.

i'll give u this.

Look up what "disarm" means, please.

I'm not sure how accurate "nobody" is when you say Treant players don't invi their whole team. If not, then they are not taking advantage of it. There's a reason why Guise's mana cost and cooldown becomes less and less the more you level it up; it's because at level 4 it is the most useful spell he has mid to late game once Living Armor has outlived its efficacy.

Guise

10/8/6/4 cooldown
90/80/70/60 mana

See level 4: 60 mana with 4 second cooldown. You can invi your entire team within 20 seconds, and will last 40 seconds. That is much better than Smoke, because it does not reveal with proximity. Guise > Moonlight Shadow.

If anything, it's Leech Seed that does not need to be leveled beyond 1, because you use it for the slow (static value) and not the heal.

u act like nature guise give u global invis, when all it does is your jungle or opponent jungle. any decent player will notice everyone is off the map, not sure where ur getting at.

moonlight shadow is much better because it is instant global invis

The purpose of guise is to make your team group up, so you can invi all of them. Derp. Treant is supposed to set up ganks and not throw a single attack during team fights.

Admittedly, I don't know if Mirana players use Moonlight Shadow as an escape or as a gank skill. If it is used as an escape, then its global factor is useful. If used as a gank, it (15 seconds whole team) is inferior to Guise (40 seconds whole team).

how exactly do u set up a gank on the other team's carry solo farming in a lane with nature guise? not to mention, in order to nature guise ur whole team, that'll take 20 sec of doing nothing nature guising each person 1 by 1 in ur own jungle = complete waste of time.

if u will argue with me saying living armor is a solid skill, then ok. but if ur gonna tell me nature guise is actually useful, then all i can do is shake my head

try to counter it instead of crying

Guise is gd for baiting some hero, like use guise on 2 heroes, and bait ur weak support, the moment they appear, BOOOM, ulti BAMBAMBAM !!

WHAT COUNTER GUYS SRSLY ? i dont give a shit of this hero he sux ballz hard its just his shield who makes all lanes win or survive. Ur mid u go aggresive and rape ur oppo but u get No advantage of the aggresivness because a fuckin roof is healing him perma. In 78 he changes the meta to ganks shit and want aggressive players to shine sure but with this spell it just breaks the entire lane phase.

OH AND its the fucktard abusing with wisp treant who says " try to counter it " stupid mongols doesnt want him to be nerfed cuz its the only way u have to win pubs.
dont missunderstand me this hero have no future in comp because lane phase doesnt rly matter.
The point is in pub ppl like the guy up above abuse it with wisp and x and control all map, they dont even play good but still they cant loose.
what does it says about the spell?

Living Armor can also be used differently. When you see your ally going one on one with an enemy hero, try not to immediately give him armor. If you give him armor during the beginning of the fight, you might discourage the enemy hero from engaging. Instead, you can watch them go at it until they are both in low health, and only give him Armor within the last few seconds of dying. It will have a quasi-similar mind game effect as when people use Bane's Sap, Purist's Purification, and Dazzle's Shallow Grave.

I remember playing a Treant game where the enemy team lost and made the following complaint:

ALL TREANT DID WAS HEAL!

Want a counter to Treant? Lane him with Rubik and steal his Living Armor or steal Overgrowth, you n00bs. Though it's easier to steal Living Armor than it is Overgrowth if the player knows what he's doing. Once you steal Living Armor, you can heal your own towers.

u know ppl created a word to define ur whole first paragraph; bait. And about that i think its okay, ( im a huge fan of baiting)but its not okay since the duration has the same time as the CD.
And stop fuckin talking about counters i dont give a fuck of this hero the pb is i win my lane hardcore but cant snowball lowskilled ppl like u cuz of a broken global refraction, got it ? Ok, actually i can, it just slows the rape and it annoys me.

It's a rather interesting phenomenon when people encounter a hero they can't beat. Instead of finding ways to counter the tactics the hero uses, they whine about him as much as possible until he gets nerfed.

Damage Reduction is not the same as Refraction. Do you even know what you're talking about? This is common knowledge that even a low skilled person like me knows about. Get it right soon plz.

First 20 mins of the game it basically is refraction. At least for physical attacks...

Lech seed and his ult suck. And invis can only be used effectively for ganking. For escaping it's not that good, especially because of the 2 second fade time.
Having one op spell makes up for it.

idk why people think his ult is bad, you got no clue
same people who always said how fucking worthless the hero is i guess

oh god how bad a human being can be, can u Alrdy pls stop talkin about stupid counters ? srsly and as i said it breaks the lane phase which means early game.
""Instead of finding ways to counter the tactics the hero uses, they whine about him as much as possible until he gets nerfed. ""
ur boring as fuck u have 1 argument and spam it every time even if its totally hors context

you are trash thats why you are crying, other normal players would try to counter it

@ IsThatHowYouLikeYourPancakes

Why his ult is bad? Because it's basically pit of malice with 1 second longer duration. It does not stun, it does not silence, it just prevents moving and disarms. You can still use almost all spells. It's so easy to escape it (leap/waveform/storm ult/naga ck illus/pa riki blink/force staff/manta/bkb/difusal...) or just use an aoe stun. More than half of heroes can totally screw his shitty ult.

Just compare it with RP for example and you'll see how much it sucks. It has 30 seconds less cd and that's all while rp has 4 seconds stun + the suck effect.

this hero has no future as is natures guise sux and if u think otherwise u suck to be forced to stick near trees sets u up to get ganked while in invis leech seed does not work and living armour does not scale well ulti does not give u an assist if the enemy gets killed my thoughts anyway

the 2 ways a treant game will end up being http://dotabuff.com/players/39600825/matches?hero=treant-protector&game_mode=&match_type=real

@PubDADDY
Awesome work. You can only ever win or lose a game.

Pretty awesome that you have completely figured out a hero after two plays of him. It's also nice to know that your matches were completely representative of the population. In your second game, your team was 8kills for the enemy's 31... must be treant's fault.

@┼jiæ░d▒r▓y┼
its the way the game was won or lost not the actual result i mainly play dota 1 at home and dota 2 at the net cafe so those 2 games are not my only games with him ur right about the must be treants fault part tho but this is how i feel that the hero works

The hero is heavily defense based so he becomes unlike a lot of other heroes out there.

PS. Diffusal Blade dispels all of the Treant's spells whether from you or from the enemy.

immobilizing and disarming heroes in a decent AOE with low cd sure seems like a bad spell to me
and it's going through bkb but if the enemy team has 3 bkbs and a naix and you think it's smart to cast your ult before they use it go for it
you just have to know the limitations of the spell before you use it and not just use it on as many heroes as possible and then complain about how it's not doing anything
it can be great to set up fights or to escape and it can also work great as a counter-initiation

and nobody's saying it's as good as rp (rp is like a vacuum + bh that doesn't need to be channeled and has a lower cooldown)

His ulti is easily countered by magic immunity/manta/diffusal.
His ulti isn't even a stun.
You can't save the teammates with guise, if they have correct items like dust/gem. And that 2 seconds fade time...
His best skill is living armor, but other ones are not shiny.
I couldn't find any reason to nerf this hero honestly.

ya because every hero usually has bkb, manta or diffusal or wants to use any of those items solely to dispel overgrowth and then again if you use it after they used bkb or manta it still does a shitton of work especially with decreasing bkb times
no it doesn't stun people good, thing you keep saying that like you don't understand it

and yes you can save teammates with guise all you have to do is armor them before you inv them

and yes people pick him for his armor but that doesn't mean that his other skills are worthless or bad

worthless =/= bad

no skill is worthless in dota 2
but all of treant's skill is bad except for living armor

Just get radiance or get someone that has aoe pulsing damage and the living armor stacks reduce significantly. Counter it like you would refraction and it shouldn't be a problem n teamfights or ganks.

no, they already nerfed him, took the damage off his ult