General Discussion

General DiscussionFlaming a SB-Orchid Slark

Flaming a SB-Orchid Slark in General Discussion
Relentless

    Ok Analsandblaster, lets consider your last 40 games of slark since all use the SB-Orchid build and are presumably after your first 450 games perfected its use.

    You won 13/40 or 32.5%. You had 316 kills 263 deaths 248 assists for a KDA of 2.14.

    The fact is you were much better on slark before you started using the shadow blade orchid build. You have consistently lost more games and fed more, and got fewer kills since you started using it.

    Although some of this is because you are now playing some games in High bracket, where the competition is tougher, still only 10% of the games were in High. I think you have just gotten into using this because you don't want to have to think about your mana management. You actually play better with the standard build.

    or maybe that sample is just to small...lets extend it to 80 games

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    Relentless

      With the last 80 games you do better. 39/80 win/loss so slightly below average

      471 more kills, 296 more deaths, 306 more deaths for a total of...787/559/554 2.40 KDA overall for the 80 games...still well below your average

      I think yes you are actually not doing as well on slark as you used to be because your shadow-blade orchid build is weak. Even when you do win, you contribute less to the win than you were on your long term average.

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      Hassan

        dude people flame even if you do something good. just ignore them

        Relentless

          Lets go a step farther, since I have time and am interested...What are your stats for non-SB orchid games? I found that you switched to this build about 3 months ago. There are actually only 79 games that don't use it! wow you used SB-orchid in 84% of your games! First you tried a MoM build and that did not work well, then you switched to linkens, skadi, and mantas. There are 59 games of that with 27 wins so 46% a bit below average.

          550 kills, 359 deaths, 542 assists for a KDA of 3.04...and there it is. As I suspected, you got a ton more assists and fewer deaths on the more conventional build. SB-orchid makes you tend to KS (incidentally from the orchid burn) and hide because you are too weak to fight more...leading to teammates getting mad.

          But apparently you still lose more than win with all of these builds. Maybe you should consider finding ways to follow up kills with taking towers. Taking towers wins games; killing heroes and then backing off loses.

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          Papa Het

            tltr: You are bad at slark, like I said, and your much loved itembuild made you a worse player ^_^

            ♿Sister Fister

              Hey, Relentless, thanks a lot for analysing my game history. Even though I rarely lose games when playing with friends, I think you're right. I will make my item build a lot more dynamic.

              Something is strange about dotobuff tho, it says I played ~500 Slark games, but I knew I played more than that.
              http://s10.postimg.org/4p7khubgn/dota_2013_06_28_16_15_45_569.jpg

              let's feed

                I think this Relentless guy works for CIA :P

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                Vaikiss`742.

                  4 sure

                  Relentless

                    not anymore...you think i'm playing dota all day at the CIA? lol

                    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    You are welcome. It didn't count any private lobby games you played, only the public matchmaking ones.

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                    ♿Sister Fister

                      It's weird because I haven't played more than a couple private lobby games.. and I'm sure I haven't played any with slark, just public matchmakings.
                      ____________
                      In more recent news I'm rushing BKB and dropped the shadow blade. Getting butterfly and armlet. It's pretty cool, an no one has anything to say against me. Thanks for all the suggestions.

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                      Papa Het

                        after like 1000 matches, you discovered there's something like BKB.

                        So proud!

                        The Twisted Light

                          Well, I personally approve orchid, understand Lothars , though I won't get it on Slark, but I can't understand soul ring, simply rushing orchid should be enough mana regen. Though if you win in the end it doesnt matter how did you do it(except abusing ghost scepter Huskar :3 )Also if you want to abuse the regen - try the Armlet, I've seen people doing crazy stuff with it.

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                          Vaikiss`742.

                            lothars is core of slark.

                            PopTatòes

                              Awesome! Relentless is awesome! :D
                              (I log-in just to say that lol)

                              Ming (Zufälliger König)

                                slark players dont get bkbs
                                unless desperate

                                true story

                                Bigshow

                                  Shortened - I am good player i can own with slark by building any item, slark balanced hero.

                                  Vaikiss`742.

                                    slark is terrible hero

                                    u can own with him only players who don't know how to play against him or uncoordinated teams (99% of pllayers in this case(

                                    Imbaplayer2003

                                      http://dotabuff.com/matches/230824241 i guess its pretty easy to see who is the best i got 100% winrate with slark

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                                      Ming (Zufälliger König)

                                        ^
                                        nice pudge feed

                                        nisa

                                          gg well said relentless. did you get paid for that? sounds fun !

                                          Ming (Zufälliger König)

                                            nisaaaa

                                            Icon

                                              i'd never get bkb on slark unless im up against amazingly co-ordinated teams with multiple stuns.

                                              Slark is #1 pubstomper

                                              Flyingpigs

                                                most entertaining post I came across. Well done guys.

                                                ♿Sister Fister

                                                  I'm still making a sb first then an orchid and an BKB only if needed. I stand for my original post, nothing is better than shadow blade on a Slark (add soul ring to that).

                                                  Icon

                                                    I agree shadow blade makes slark the best ganker in the game without peers. (assuming of course you get it 15 minutes or less) However soul ring is really unnecessary if you are reliant on a soul ring you really need to find something else. Bottle is far more useful than soul ring.

                                                    ❤ Ashley ❤

                                                      op thinks hes good lol, fucking noob slark

                                                      Captain Teemo

                                                        just shut up and get your Slark win rate reach > 50%. Otherwise, dont complain about your teammates. They lost because of your foolish item build in the wrong situation. You get Soul Ring when the enemy team got high nukes. You got armlet when the enemy team got many stuns. You got orchid when you can't even chase your enemies. You got SB even though the enemy team has Nyx, BH or any good gem carriers.
                                                        From your match stats I can assume that you always play slark like void and anti - mage. He's a very good ganker. He gains gold from killing not stealing farm from teammates. Instead of just complaining, please improve yourself.

                                                        zoonxx

                                                          LOL @ Bad to the Bone, dude the only reason you have high win ratio is because you have played only 25 or so games. New account? Btw, I get why people flame but if you are doing well and using SB well (i.e making it work using the on hit gmd and using ur ult and all ur other spells) then they have no right (i mean if you went 20+ a game thats impressive).

                                                          Zumi

                                                            You just lost 7 slark games in a row in one day... I didn't think that was possible.

                                                            Fire_Sign

                                                              Slark is shit. Useless weak hero.

                                                              Flyingpigs

                                                                Hey op. What's your opinion on why you lost 13 games out of the last 16 games you played. (all by using slark)

                                                                ♿Sister Fister

                                                                  I don't care, regardless of how many games I lose or win, I have fun playing Slark and I will always build a shadow blade after I get the soul ring and phase boots. And OP does not think he's good, I'm just saying that when I'm doing well in matches people still flame me for getting a shadow blade- happened less recently, but I started not to give a fuck anymore. I get reported by enemy parties and I'm muted for another 168 hours, so I can't even reply to the shit my team-mates spew at me.

                                                                  Regarding the win/loss ration, IT IS ABOVE 50%.. I have no idea why dotabuff shows different. As displayed in the previous screenshot, I have more than 500 games with Slark
                                                                  http://s10.postimg.org/4p7khubgn/dota_2013_06_28_16_15_45_569.jpg
                                                                  and they're all public matchmakings.

                                                                  Zumi

                                                                    " I'm doing well in matches people still flame me for getting a shadow blade- happened less recently,"

                                                                    How are you doing well when you lost 13 of the 16 games as slark? And dotabuff is probably different because your settings for "3rd party w/e was set on default when valve created it, causing dotabuff to not record some matches.

                                                                    Icon

                                                                      After viewing your profile and as an avid slarker myself heres the pubstomp guide to slark.

                                                                      1. CALL MID
                                                                      2. Starting items; 3 branches, 1 salve
                                                                      3. Hold off on levelling anything until you know who you are up against. If melee level up essence shift first and harass.
                                                                      4. Rush bottle and brown boots
                                                                      5. Try not to gank unless you are certain there are kills on offer
                                                                      6. Rush shadow blade before treads, if you have a good time, you will get shadow blade up around 10-12 mins(if you got good farm/were successful in ganks)
                                                                      7. Preference here treads + wand or go straight for orchid/basher(orchid for heavy burst damage/disable teams and basher for tankier teams)

                                                                      If you follow these steps you should snowball quickly and your slark experience will be a little more enjoyable.

                                                                      soul ring on slark is ridiculous honestly.

                                                                      Luxon

                                                                        Don't lose time. He will not consider anyone's opinion and still stay on his mind. The purpose of creating this thread is unclear to me.

                                                                        ♿Sister Fister

                                                                          Icon, I appreciate you shared the way you play Slark and I will probably try that too.

                                                                          I'm doing it the following way:

                                                                          1. I rarely take mid as most people want mid and I don't want to end up arguing or dual-lane mid as I've seen it happen a lot of times; so I almost always go for the short lane, solo or duo depending on the others' preferences.

                                                                          2. My starting items are quelling blade and observer wards. I never rely on supports to ward the enemy jungle so I'm doing it myself. I also ward a rune for the mid player, the rune close to the short lane. I position the wards in a way that gives me maximum visibility in their jungle.

                                                                          3. After a short while I buy a ring of regeneration from the side shop (or call the courier with it if I can't reach the shop). Then I buy the recipe for the Soul Ring and call the courier with it as soon as possible. Then when I have the gold to complete the Soul Ring, I buy sage's mask from the side shop.

                                                                          4. I always level up pounce first as a basic escape mechanism. The Soul Ring helps me stay on the lane as it gives quite decent hp regen, but I never use it before lvl6 unless absolutely necessary (if somehow I'm out of mana and really need the extra to escape or attack/kill).

                                                                          5. Next I buy boots of speed and build them into Phase Boots. I like Phase Boots on Slark more than Treads because of several reasons. Helps me escape or pursuit easier, allows me to move through units which is so very important in certain circumstances and I also use it in conjunction with the Soul Ring: I activate the SL, get extra mana but lose hp, while I wait for my hp to regen I rush towards the enemy with Phase Boots activated (and full hp by now) pounce and dark pact (which are for free thanks to the Soul Ring). If the enemy wishes to fight, Ia ctivate my ulti, if not, I made damage with no mana loss and I can pursuit to kill.

                                                                          6. After SL and PB, I make the shadow blade.. trying to get the amulet first then claymore. When that's ready, I start building the orchid. As a third major item I go for armlet, bkb or butterfly.

                                                                          7. Sometimes I have to buy a gem before getting the SB.. you just can't farm properly with Riki and Nyx roaming the map.

                                                                          8. I sell the Soul Ring only when I'm in desperate need of a slot which happens if the game becomes a long one. Sould Ring is still cool midgame as it grants a leap forward and SB activation with no mana loss. It's also great for pushing lanes early in the game since you can dark pact twice with no mana loss.

                                                                          _____________________________________

                                                                          [*Desolator*
                                                                          2 hours ago
                                                                          How are you doing well when you lost 13 of the 16 games as slark? ]

                                                                          I can be pleased with personal performance even if the rest of the team sucks ass, can't I? Of course, sometimes I have really bad games and I end up to be seen as the weakest player in the team. It's a team game, losing 13 out of 16 doesn't mean I sucked 13 times nor does it mean that I was awesome 3 times.

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                                                                          Icon

                                                                            If your build was effective you would have a much higher win rate.

                                                                            Perhaps it isn't your build and it's your performance.

                                                                            You are in low tier...you take mid and you stomp it really is not difficult..

                                                                            Problem is you are obviously far too stubborn and you think after 600+ wins your build is the right way to go.

                                                                            ITS NOT WORKING DUDE GET IT THROUGH YOUR FKN HEAD.

                                                                            Ples Mercy

                                                                              you should play LoL. Your items should depend on the situation, which you clearly didnt understand, even after over 1k matches. Personally i like lothars on slark but i never would go for orchid, theres just so many other things which are so much better.

                                                                              And to honest, your are a rather bad player. When i look at your matches, then i sadly have to tell you, that they flame for a very good reason. So just do us and yourself a favor and delete the game.

                                                                              Vaikiss`742.

                                                                                i actually dislike playing slark in mid

                                                                                offlane and safelane both much better for me

                                                                                doesnt matter if im supporting insafelane with pulls and ganks or being main farmer game still turns out 90% of the time me stomping everyone (+ other guy in team gets farmed incase i cant win solo)

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                                                                                krame

                                                                                  stop autismally obssessing about soul ring and learn that its shit what the fuck

                                                                                  Zumi

                                                                                    "It's a team game, losing 13 out of 16 doesn't mean I sucked 13 times nor does it mean that I was awesome 3 times."

                                                                                    Win and lose is a precise indicator. I am just saying it is VERY HARD to lose 13 and of 16 games if you performed GOOD especially with slark.

                                                                                    ♿Sister Fister

                                                                                      Soul Ring on Slark isn't shit, it's da shit. It has proven useful to me too many times- the opinions of some randoms here which aren't even giving reasonable explanations as to why SL isn't good on Slark mean next to nothing.

                                                                                      Most of you care to tell me I'm not a good player as if I came here to boast about my skills with Slark, I still have a lot to improve, I never said I mastered the hero. And no matter how well I play, if you have a single idiot in your team it's enough to call it a lost game, so fo with your win ratio ranting.

                                                                                      logic

                                                                                        Uhm .. No. If you have 1 person who isn't up to par with your skills that doesen't mean it's a lost game ... If anything you try to tell him what he is doing wrong and if he doesen't listen then you just tell him to show to up teamfights. I've played with a lot of idiots through my time in Normal mm. But as you get better the "idiots" tend to get less abundant. As i see it now you will NEVER get better with slark if you build the same exact thing every game. It is almost sounding like you are against every other item. Personally, I'm pretty ok with slark, i don't play him often, but when i do play him we most of the time win the game. Just please, 1 game, try something new. Or im telling you, you won't get better

                                                                                        Icon

                                                                                          Soul Ring on Slark isn't shit, it's da shit. It has proven useful to me too many times- the opinions of some randoms here which aren't even giving reasonable explanations as to why SL isn't good on Slark mean next to nothing.

                                                                                          Most of you care to tell me I'm not a good player as if I came here to boast about my skills with Slark, I still have a lot to improve, I never said I mastered the hero. And no matter how well I play, if you have a single idiot in your team it's enough to call it a lost game, so fo with your win ratio ranting.
                                                                                          ---

                                                                                          You post your sob story on a public forum crying out for condolences from your peers in regards to your play style. When faced with the critical truth and the root of the issue you turn on us for providing the insight that was necessary. Shadow blade, not an issue on slark it's absolute paramount, orchid is situational depending on the other team, if they have plenty of disables or someone like a qop/anti mage then its absolutely acceptable.

                                                                                          However, statistics would indicate it is not your build that is the issue, it is your inability to execute. We are only trying to help, if you cannot accept that, delete your initial post and move on. More than enough competent slarkers have tried helping you.

                                                                                          packet canceled

                                                                                            why would u start with qb over stout? you have like sixty base damage

                                                                                            magic stick and a robe of magi (for orchid) should solve ur mana issues no need for sr

                                                                                            Compare to Opti-Free Repl...

                                                                                              Why don't you compare your Slark record to mine, and then figure out if your build is better or not?

                                                                                              Androgynous

                                                                                                No starting regen is a noob mistake. A ring of regen isn't comparable to tangos + salves, in the same way that the sage's mask doesn't compare to a clarity. Too expensive and offers too little.

                                                                                                Tangos + Salve + 3 Branches + Stout Shield is much more efficient and reliable for your starting gold than your shitty Obs + QB build.

                                                                                                ♿Sister Fister

                                                                                                  Rushing Shadow Blade like a boss right after Soul Ring and Boots of Speed, aww yeah, so much fun.

                                                                                                  AP

                                                                                                    maybe don't build the same exact items every fucking game lol. there are probably times when that build is the right one but you should take into account what your team needs and what you're up against

                                                                                                    Gyiyomi

                                                                                                      ICON-->Problem is you are obviously far too stubborn and you think after 600+ wins your build is the right way to go.

                                                                                                      ITS NOT WORKING DUDE GET IT THROUGH YOUR FKN HEAD.

                                                                                                      ICON-->However, statistics would indicate it is not your build that is the issue, it is your inability to execute. We are only trying to help, if you cannot accept that, delete your initial post and move on. More than enough competent slarkers have tried helping you.

                                                                                                      Best advices of the comment and u should listen to it...Don't keep saying my teammates are noob blablabla...Even teammates noob we never lose 13 games out of 16..Time to figure the reason yourself or else nobody can help u improve.