General DiscussionES pulls creeps to Ancient

When you wonder why someone just died. There's one simple answer, they are noobs. :D

It would be very easy for me to lane this with tree...and pretty much any range hero.

People are dieing because they are bad...although if they have two stuns against you, most melee heroes would have some trouble. Most melee heroes should also not be in the offlane. If they are, they are probably bad or they would not have gone there.

i actually downloaded replay and u suck at this ? really dieing to ancients ?

really getting 2 mantles of inteligence at start instea of clarrities and making items ? good thing us servers are full of noobs so u still could do shit even after such a terrible laning and ancients pulling

Jesus did you pay attention? I suicided to get full health and mana to redo the gimmick. The extra mantles gave extra mana pool so I could pull an extra time before suiciding.

In the handful of pro games I have seen this type of lane run its success or failure is entirely dependent on a warding/dewarding battle.

If the ancient camp is not ward blocked successfully the ancient pulling ruins the xp and farm of the other team while the puller and the laner do better than average. If the camp is blocked successfully the lane fails. 75% of the time the ward block is effective so pro teams don't try this much. Its high risk, but you really have to beat it with ward blocking. If your laner is dieing its because they are bad.

I think you can't do this in most pubs an expect people to deal with it. Just use it when you know the laner is someone who expects it and can handle it.

i did but u dont have to die thats why soulring is made for and u can get it within 2 minutes while getting even more items later on i did this last time i played es and i had 20 min dagger + aghanims

It was a good idea to suicide at 5:20 game time. Pulling ancients got me down to 100 hp and 10 mana. It would cost one salve + 2 clarities to be back at full power and it requires 60 seconds to regenerate.

Choose one option:
1) 100+50+50 = 200 gold + cannot pull ancients for 60 seconds + takes courier away from team

or

2)Suicide = 135gold for TP and 90 gold for death, but fully restored and can pull again within 15 seconds.

you lost too much kda for suiciide, they should not count suicide as death count :D

I watched the last two ancient pulling ES games. The first one started badly because UD positioned really badly. He took nearly his full hp in dmg 3 times in a row by walking all the way down into the lane and trying to man fight ursa and troll with no levels in tombstone. The lane was going to pull back for him...but he decided to not wait and walk up to nearly die instead...fortunately ursa and troll failed to coordinate slows correctly so he was able to keep doing this and survive.

The second game I think stacking the ancients was a fatal mistake. The partial creep waves cannot do anything to a double ancient camp. Maybe if 2 of the 3 ancients have been killed you can stack it. Invoker gained a huge experience advantage over storm mid because of the pulls. He was level 8 when storm was 4...but since he sucks at invoker he attacked storm (who had DD bottled) uphill into fog with 3 enemy heroes off the map...failed to control his forge-spirit so it hit creeps, hit creeps himself instead of storm...and so even with a huge advantage storm killed him with a little help from late arriving CM.

I think it would be worth trying it Vaikiss way a few games. It might be better. What if you fissured 1 second earlier? That might give you more time to pull the creeps more carefully and take less dmg.

I tried a few games with "medium" bots on Radient. Started with sobi, soul recipe, 1 clarity. I used the clarity to get mana back after 2 fissures and that was enough to kill the first camp on the third pull. Cast fissures at 0:37, 1:07, 1:37. If I did not get in plenty of right clicks, 3 pulls may not have been enough to kill it because the full wave does not come on Radient. I was able to stay there pulling creeps indefinitely once my soul ring was completed when the first ancient camp had died at about 2 min. By ten min I was level 5, had soul ring, boots and 500 gold toward arcanes and my medium bot won mid because of the xp advantage.

It seems like this could work...but its very easy to mess it up and while it should make mid an easy win...who knows what the stupid pub soloing mid will actually do.

pull ancients on dire is easy. pulling radiant's creeps to ancient is so hard! Half the times, 4 creeps go up towards ancient, but half the other times, 1 or 2 creeps go down toward middle. I don't understand how do it it perfect each time.

just tried this in a recent game, was laning with a wd 257460790

I don't think its possible to get a perfect pull on Radient every time. Their movement changes because some waves run into each other differently than others. However if you are careful not to destroy any trees getting 2 creeps every other wave or so is ok. If you destroy a tree then it gets bad.

i prefer doing it as dire only cause u can just pull to ancients and then leech full creepwave of exp under ur tower maybe even snatch few lasthits

Vaikiss, you didn't argue with me. So I assume you agree that suicide was the best choice at 5:20

maybe it was the best in that case but in overall dieing is almost never better than staying alive

liek i said before u could have had awesome items if u soloed that lane and farmed ancients + lane creeps