IDK seems like if you had a chance to crit passive, then it reacted like jinada, it would be more of a timing issue early on when to hit the hero for a gank instead of leaving it to the dice so to speak.
Would be interesting to see the outcome though. I probably would use a lot more passive crit people then if the chance to hit was removed and had a CD timer instead.
One last thought, if you had these crits changed to cooldowns like jinada, having your increased attack speed items wouldn't be as big of an deal depending on the cool down on it. I could see people going higher damage items, and less increased attack speed items. It would definitely change the game big time.
I find that RNG doesn't have a large effect on the game at all, however some aspects of RNG should be minimized.
Personally, I think auto attack damage having a range is kinda outdated.
Crit chance and stuff like that is fine imho.
what is RNG ?
never mind . i googled. for those who don't want to google: RNG = pseudo random number generation
ugh...rng...void dodging absolutely everything for 20 seconds straight....chances of happening? May as well be impossible...how often does it actually happen? I can count on one hand, but that's still more times than it should have happened.
^exactly, and imagine it happened in TI4, then everyone would go fucking insane. RNG should be replaced with something more predictable and more balanced.
Adding randomness to a game shows truely how lazy a game company is, reminds me of Tera Online where everything was RNG because the game company didnt care enough to make an actually balanced system on upgrading gear.
rng makes the game more appealing to the casuals, and casuals make up more player base than the serious players.
Sorry but it's all about money.
I remember in cs101, we are taught that every random number generator is indeed pseudo random number generator.
As I know a lots of crits are pseudo-random, not real random http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR7BcWfBCsc Im lazy to actually google it, but Ive heard it in this video.
Not every whoji. Some are still totally random. IIRC Breaker's Bash, Slardar's Bash, and Void's Backtrack are not pseudo.
Most of these things really don't matter until the lategame anyway, where the effectiveness of your positioning and item choices will have a huge effect on being able to overcome even the luckiest rng rolls. Chaos Bolt won't 4 second you until level 5. You won't get multicasted until level 6. I'm perfectly happy looking at evasion as a general % damage reduction and crits as a dps increase.
Successive uphill misses on wards, though, are really hard to predict and play around. Getting ganked when I have a ward at 1 or 2 hp is probably the most frustrating experience I've had in the game...
^But they still matter, whether at the 5 minute mark or 5 hour mark, they are extremely annoying and imbalanced. It isnt a % damage increase, its a luck based damage increase. I could buy a daedalus and crit once in 3 hits or once in 12 hits, potentially winning/losing the game because of that.
Infact, in this game http://dotabuff.com/matches/407600432 I bought a Rapier and Daedalus for the final fight and I was lucky enough to crit Ember Spirit TWICE IN A ROW causing him to die before even casting a spell, which literally won the fight for us because he had a rapier and 2 daedaluses and had he crit during fist, it would be a guaranteed teamwipe and they would have won.
Yep but noones telling you you HAVE TO buy luck-based items. Its like buying a Rapier, you decided you want to risk it. It gives you a chance to deal a lot more damage or to deal a lot less than if you spent your money on some simple damage, its your choise, noones forcing you to buy those.
Uphill dewarding is indeed annoying, but once I was missing a lot on a roshan rune ward and spirit breaker charged me than his retarded teammate pudge hooked him from me so I survived, so well... even when you are unlucky as fuck your enemy can be "unluckier", so its fine. :D
WINK I ALREADY GAVE A SOLUTION SUCH AS FOR PA'S ULT MAKE IT SO SHE DOES MORE DAMAGE THE LOWER THE HEALTH OF THE ATTACKED. BECAUSE MAKING HER ULT HAVE A CD OR AMOUNT OF TAKES WOULD PUT HER BELOW THE SHIT TIER.
AND FOR THE PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT RNG(WITH REASON) WOULD ALSO HAVETO CHANGE ALOT OF OTHER THINGS, INCLUDING THE RANGES ON GOLD FROM CREEPS.
PAs crit jinda like would be op
Core items: 4 rapiers and blink dagger and bfury
phantom strike in 1 hit kill the whole enemy team or the carry. blink out
not to mention kunka
Uphill miss, i hate that so much, seriously SO much.
Every time i play mid i lose at least 3 or 4 cs because of uphill miss
rng on LD's entangle
it is so wrong
your enemies always 1 hit root you
I disagree with your method of fixing rng, but I do think changes should be made to miss chance on wards. The amount of times I've seen supports die because they miss so many times on wards is bs. But overall if you're sacrificing another potential useful skill to get an RNG based skill that's something that comes with the character. I don't think you can call it laziness either, it still keeps an excitement factor in the game. And it's not exactly like every rng character has a higher win rate than any other characters so it isn't exactly OP
almost everything is pseudo random anyway.
Again, my biggest beef is with damage range RNG on auto attacks. fucks up last hits for no reason.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/551329726 I just lost last game cus of total Terrorblade luck in crucial fight, Sven missed him 2x in a row at his 5% while he was stuned and after that ofc Tb did ulti to Sven full hp from 5% and gg..
How about poker? Luck factor is huge in this game, but nobody complains. And there are lots of professional players, tournaments, etc. Just accept RNG and enjoy the game.
you lack playing time... uphill misses arent that random...sure they might seem like that but most of them are expected misses
crits are just whatever, crit on first 2 hits keep rolling and attacking, miss on first 2 better back off and try again later
it is! dota is strategy u dumb fuck... sometimes the best course of action is taking a chance to surprise and just go all in on those dice or come back later with better chances when u can take 3 chance hits before deciding to commit on that fight based on positioning (team got u backed up until certain point and enemy cant counter yet, etc)
yea it has very huge impact, i'll always remember how alliance won all their matches ti4 cuz of that rng ward
fuckin morons.. and he talks about competitive, jesus help those ppl
If uphill miss chance is such a big deal to you (apart from the warding aspect) then just go up the hill and hit things instead. If that's not possible because enemies are there, then you shouldn't be fighting on the low ground anyway.
I think RNG isn't exactly game breaking, you'll always have situations where luck will be on your side and times where it won't. But it's the whole concept of RNG that balances itself out. You got 2 crits in a row? You're lucky. Will it happen often? Most likely not. Crits and missing are based so that in the long run they only increase your DPS/EHP by a percentage, just certain situations may have more of an impact from this than others
Uphill miss means you are misssing creep? Pull the creep down or go up if there is no enemy. DOTA 101
xdDDDdddd
Only RNG that is very gamechanging is the Roshan stun, (as you saw in TI3 gf, dondo bashed 3 times in a row)
Other things are okay. However, its annoying when a Spirit Breaker (rarely see one though) bashes you 5 times in a row, but when you play him yourself you bash once a game. Same with PA.
nothing is all strategy no luck, or nothing that obviously comes to mind
not monopoly
not big 2
not yu gi oh
not dota
Every game needs to have some luck in it. How do you expect to keep the game going without any RNG in it? It's close to impossible.
Ogre Magi is a great example. When you go a string of no multi-casts and then get several multi-casts in a row. I used to hate the character because I'd get wrecked by him but never seem to get any myself. Then I had a couple good games where I quasi-2 shot a support.
The reason RNG is in video games like dota is to provide an alternative to real life practice. When you play faceless void you aren't physically dodging attacks in real life based on skill so having him have a random chance to dodge is an approximation of real life combat. If they wanted to make it more realistic dodge would be a skill you active at a precise time to actually block or dodge and attack, that would be probably as close to skill based as it could be, but since you're just pushing a button it's hard to balance it. RNG works better in most situations.
Besides nearly every game ever invented has randomness in it. Even sports, on any given night a baseball hitter might go 5/5 or 2/5 or 0/5. A basketball player with a 90% ft rate might miss two in a row. There is skill involved but even real life performance has random results.
I do hate luck in this game too, from the bashes to crits, to fucking Ogre Magi- I hate it all so much.
I do think a new system needs to be implemented, luck should be slowly squeezed out of this game, attack ranges need to be removed and random percentage chances reworked.
As OP suggested, having it so Faceless Void backtracks every FOURTH instance of damage, or a Daedalus crits on every FOURTH attack- could be one possible solution, that would cause people to attack a creep three times, then attack a hero. Therefore, there needs to be an addition system in place.
Here is what I'm proposing.
Say, we have a Daedalus. When you start attacking a unit, one out of FOUR attacks with critically hit- attack three times, one critical hit, attack another three times, critical hit. However, upon attacking a new unit, the 'position' of the critical hit changes, to prevent crit or bash scumming. So if you attack a creep three times and don't get a critical hit, if you swap target your next attack won't necessarily be a critical strike, you may need to attack once, twice or thrice before the critical hit occurs. Now, this may seem counter-productive because it certainly adds an element of randomness and luck, you might get a first hit critical hit and you might now- however, this removes a HUGE amount of luck in regards to RNG abilities, you can no longer attack eight times without a critical hit, or attack twice and get two crits in a row! I think that is the way forward. This can easily be applied to passives such as backtrack which would now allow you to avoid 25% of a DoT from one hero guaranteed, abilities that don't have a RNG divisible into an integer may be an issue, or they have to be slightly randomized, for example a Sniper would headset every two or three attacks, there would have to be a ratio so the 40% is still there and unlucky snipers won't get three attack intervals between every headset- but I hope you get my point.
This would have to be a lot more complicated for Ogre Magi, who is special in the fact he has three RNGs at level 16, x4, x3 and x2- the algorithm would certainly have to be more complicated. If anything, you can let this particular hero slide due to the fact the hero is based on luck and his 'luck' involves casting spells as opposed to right clicking and what not. Still an annoying fucker though, he has the ability to randomly do 225 damage or 900 damage to you, pretty stupid.
(This would also stop Roshan fucking mega-bashing you to death)
^ You must go to casino with this proposition: player who bets only on red or black must win every second time. =)
Learn to negate the RNG? You can BKB / Ghost Scepter/ Euls yourself when PA tries to hit you, kite him around until his BKB is down and disable him and rape him. Dont complain about the RNG factor, learn to play against it, if you allow him to freely hit you and allow RNG to come into play, its yor fault
Taking out rng takes out a massive amount of uncertaintity. Uncertaintity makes things more interesting. Ballsy plays are fun to watch and are rewarded or punished by rng. I love rng im just not oblivious to the fact it works both ways which many people seem to be.
forum grave digger
no it's not the players' fault so you're playing late game and you land a great arrow/something and are about to dps the ogremagi to death and he multicasts you to death instead with 2 4x fireblasts. your fault?
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I find that RNG is a huge factor in DotA 2, and this is really bad because of the competitiveness in the game. I played against a PA today, who I shit you not, crit at least twice on every hero she attacked, she would crit with almost all her daggers on heroes and then crit with her right clicks immediately after, EVERY TIME. Another issue is uphill attacking RNG. When you are trying to deward up a hill, it is literally random whether or not you kill it in 2 hits or 12, which also decides whether the enemy team has time to get to you or not. Issues like this should really be fixed because a bad but lucky player could beat Na'Vi through RNG.
Critting should not be based on a chance, but should be similar to Jinada, but instead of being a cooldown thing, it should count your number of attacks and then crit, so instead of 15% chance to crit, it should be after every 7ish hits you crit. Yes that means that you can go hit a creep 6 times and then go insta crit someone, but then you still have to hit them 7 more times to crit again, instead of just getting lucky and critting 4 times in a row.
Uphill attacks should just make you miss every 3 or 4 hits (whatever the percentage is) instead of making you miss 6 times in a row.
Your thoughts?