General DiscussionI Love Storm Spirit

ur buying decent items, it doesnt matter if you go bs/orchid in 3.5k mmr games

skill build and skill order.

1-3-1-1 by 6 is pretty standard and reliable, but sometimes you can go 1-2-2-1 or even 1-1-3-1 (into 1-3-3-1) so that the extra overload damage helps you harass or last hit with. If you're not expecting to gank much early on, then maxing overload for more aoe damage + to harass the enemy laner can help you win the lane more than vortex will, so that by the time you do want to go ganking, your vortex will be levelled adequately.

if you go 1-2-2-1, as long as your zips are farily on point, you should still be able to hit remnant reliably, and the extra damage does add up in the early game, if you take into account every time you get an extra 20 damage each time you harass with overload when last hitting, not just when you go in for a kill.

max ur remnants lmao they r so good sick dmg srsly

read about it on reddit

if you're leveling remnant, you are trading 40 damage for 10 mana per level. By leveling overload, you're getting half the damage increase with no mana penalty. But remember that you usually need to zip in to get in close to use the remnant - that gives you one overload charge. In the time the remnant recharges, you can do a couple zips and use vortex - more overload damage. A simple zip/hit + vortex/hit + remnant/hit gives you 270 overload damage at max level.

I believe I read somewhere that maxing overload in the end does have more damage output, makes sense because each additional level of remnant does 40 extra damage, for 10 mana, while each overload gives 20 damage per spell.

For the sake of calculation, say the zip does the same damage in both cases, so there is no net damage difference. Same goes for Zip mana cost and physical damage. (Correct me if this messes the results!)

Assuming a regular combo-With Max Remnant and Level One Overload
Zip+Hit- 30 damage
Pull+Hit- 30 damage
Rem+Hit- 290 damage
Total: 350 damage and added 30 mana cost.

Assuming a regular combo-With Max Overload and Level One Remnant
Zip+Hit- 90 damage
Pull+Hit- 90 damage
Rem+Hit- 230 damage
Total: 410 damage

Added to the the high likelihood of using short balls at some point, and rarely getting the position for second remnant unless they're chasing you and the additional mana cost of remnant, it seems to me that max overload before remnant is a given GENERALLY speaking. The exception i could think of is maybe against a hyper aggressive Pudge player, or if you're solely trying to push.

As for Androgynous, thanks a lot for the advice, I'd thought of getting second points in my passive before third in pull simply because the damage seems SO much better at level 2 (That might be strange?), but I'm often afraid of doing something that would be considered wrong, so now I have assurance to do it if I feel it's the better thing to do. The 3rd in passive might get a bit scary... but why not try it?

Thanks for the advice guys!

you're not getting 20 damage for ranking overload, you're getting at least 60 since you're going to be casting all 3 of your spells at lesat once when attempting a kill.

that's already 60 damage for no mana cost increase.

all you have to do is count how many remnants you hit compared to how many spells you cast, rather than calculating all the damage.

each level of remnant adds 40 damage compared to the previous level if remnant actually explodes, each level of overload adds 20 per spell cast. so if you're only using remnant to proc overload, then you don't get the 40 bonus damage for ranking up remnant.

if in a gank, you cast remnant 3 times, pull once, and ball lightning once, then one extra level of Q adds 120 damage, although for 30 more mana.

because you casted 5 spells, if you had ranked overload instead, it would've given you 100 more damage for 0 mana.
although this situation is unlikely since you're going to be casting lightning if you want to proc overload.

"'I'd thought of getting second points in my passive before third in pull simply because the damage seems SO much better at level 2 (That might be strange?)"

its not, you use remnant often in the laning stage to last hit with, those overload hits add up. think of how many times you have overload attacks compared to how often you cast vortex pre-6. also the relative percentage from rank n compared to rank (n+1) increase is the biggest going from rank 1 to rank 2 - since going from 30 damage to 50 is a 66% increase, 50 to 70 is a 40% increase, and going from 70 damage to 90 is 28.5% increase.

you can go for a 1-2-2-1 into 1-2-4-1 build, if you're really comfortable with your ball lightning accuracy, otherwise just go 1-2-2-1 into 1-3-2-1 by level 7 - which results in the same skill build as the game you just showed us by level 7, but you have better damage between the level where you get rank 2 overload and level 7. so if you get rank 2 overload at level 3, for 4 levels, you'll have more damage than 1-3-1-1, which can add up to get you a solo kill on the mid lane.

the only reason you'd consider getting a second point into overload is one point pre level 10 so that you can farm quicker (maybe as a safe lane storm). getting rank 2 remnant at 10 is pointless because you don't benefit from the higher aoe damage for very long, and by that time, 0.5s more DPS is better.

Thanks for clarifying the last point.
I'm often asked by friends what skill order to use and often recommend 1-3-1-1 but always hesitate to tell them to finish maxing vortex before moving on to remnant. I just usually said it was up to personal preference, but I myself, prefer to finish that additional vortex point for a BIT more stun and more time to set up a remnant.