1) yes
2) yes, meaning if someone bkbs you can spin and hit him for free only works on catapults and buildings, on heroes you proc orb effects and manaburn but thats it i think
3) gets strapped for slots too quickly in general (needs too many items)
4) soul ring is better than bottle imo since blade fury dispels most useful runes too quickly
5) agha's cooldown reduction is quite significant, and early on it gives you the stats to manfight
6) blink is for initiating pickoffs with omnislash/changing targets
Blink if you're up against mobile heroes like Mirana or something like a blink Clinkz/Furion
edit: Helps you catch up to ult if they happen to blink away
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Escho v stime ob etom pogavorim.
1) yes
2) if you deal 0 damage then cleaving 35% of 0 damage is still 0, you cann't damage people under bkb, as they are affected by don't take damage -countrary to let say building,cata... which are totally unaffected, you could also note the bug about ally creep not being damageable while they are obviously not affected-
However there's ton of thing that doesn't require damage to proc, skady, diffu, mjolnir, sy etc...
3) bf allow faster farm, but the reall utility from it comes from a dual bf late game, when a single ult can wipe out a whole team (and creeps will be insta killed by splash aswell)
4) even if you don't have bottle, you can still pickup the bounty rune, and countrary to bottle, soul ring allow you to cast your ward when/ever it's ready.
5) Agah suck, simply cause mjolnir is giving more dps during ult than agah, and you can easily get people without your ult if you play agahless. Not to mention that agah really suck ball to farm.
The only reason a juggernaut can go for agah is if he isn't supposed to farm (and you will not reach the <0.4s per attack if you build agah, or you will not have the dag/bkb to actually be able to cast it)
6) dagg is mobility (so faster farming, and can go deeper in enemy line) but especially initiation for ult.
While pretty unconventional, the Merlini jug build can be really fun to play. The idea is to rush BoTs and a radiance and use it to push waves super fast and spin TP out if the enemy comes. Obviously situational against BKB piercing lockdown. You can farm insanely fast, and itemwise its very flexible. I generally go PMS, Bottle (since you are BoT-ing to base, otherwise soul ring is better), BoTs, rad, manta, bfly, then whatever I need for that game. Sometimes it's lockdown in the form of abysal, sometimes it's chase and sustain with skadi, and sometimes its raw damage with mjolnir. Anything can work situationally (AC, deso, satanic, BKB).
I lane him mid when playing this build. Spin is a great wave controller to secure runes. He is also a great matchup against pub mids like sniper or pudge (although he isn't great against mid lane winners like TA, viper, razor, or puck in particular).
It feels like a very different hero when played this way, and is a ton of fun.
I hesistate to disagree with you (or Zenoth) because i have a ton of respect for both of you guys, yet i think Rad has a different kind of utility. The health and mana that BF would give is instead provided by the bottle, rad damage goes with spin (unlike BF), rad stops enemy blinks, spinning down a wave is much faster witb a rad, and the rad burn really adds up in a long fight (which healing ward can help with too). You can also leave manta illus behind to take another wave quickly with Rad after you spin-TP.
The build i wrote above is not a 100% of the time build, but one that is fun, different, and very effective in certain situations.
Wow matrice is saying bf is good on jug. Why don,t I see a bunch of monkeys calling him retarded? Oh yeah cause you fuckers are monkey and can,t think for yourselves
you don't need to use the spin with bf on jugg to clean the wave, as you will be faster with auto attack, so you will be in addition even safer, since you will still have your spin to tp out in case of. Not to mention that radiance manta jugg barely do anything. paying ~10k gold of item that are totally useless to fight is way too much. Even naga have trouble not to make her team lose before her radiance, and she can farm much more effectively than jugg before that radiance.
And even by radiance time it's not yet win for her, while she's actually one of the few heroes for who radiance is god tier.
Edit: the bf build is for an ult that will rape whole enemy team, so a double bf build, that's it. otherwise that indeed suck. That's a 6 slots build, and before the 5th slot, you are basically useless. In bulk, that like tiny, useless before 5 items, with a big peak of power early with insta kill spell.
why would you spin to wave when you have battlefury lol
and the reason that shitters get called out for building battlefury on juggernaut is because they build it late and/or when its not appropriate. less to do with the item and more about the player and situation
2 reasons i see to build battlefurry is to farm fast and kill creeps while ulting to get more hits on heroes.
bf is super good on jugger but it may not be what you need to win
yasha is farming item too and drums good too, mealstorm seen some mom, but in teamfight most likely u will xplode.
@Benao
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1128664806
lol that tiny went for midas aghs bkb
was he like attacking once an hour lol?
now that i look at it 3 blaidmail omfg.
idk if that tiny had shot at winning that game, unlease he got another 150 gpm
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Jug seems like a good hero now and I'm want try him, but have some questions for Juggernaut players, answers for any question is welcome. Also, if you know someone spamming this hero/doing well with him link profile here.
Mechanics questions:
1) Does Skadi slow you during Blade Fury since it pierces BKB?
2) On dota2wiki it sais "Juggernaut can perform attacks during Blade Fury, but will deal no damage with them against units affected by Blade Fury".
Does that mean that during BF your attacks will go through (you will get attack sounds and crit sounds/red numbers) but they do zero dmg to target UNLESS it's a building/catapult/hero with active BKB/Rage?
Can I procc Unique Attack Modifiers: e.g. If I have Deso I will apply debuff on attack or Maelstrom if target is currently recieving dmg from BF?
Item theorycrafting:
3) Why don't people get Battefury on Jug, (assuming he is hardcarry)?
- It gives mana regen so you don't need Soul Ring / Bottle for sustain
- "Cleave is the only exception here. Despite being based on attack damage, cleave will still fully work when attacking a unit affected by Blade Fury" so BatteFury makes Blade Fury more useful in a way..
4) Probably BF is not viable every game (too expensive) lets look at more cost efficient builds.
For mana sustain, I see Matrice getting Soul Ring, how is it better to get Soul Ring over Bottle?
The only reason that I see is @lvl 6 jug has 273 mana if you don't get stats, you don't have enough Mana to cast the combo @lvl 6 (110+200=310). Isn't it better to get bottle on Jugger because of the new double rune, and it's not like enemies are gonna contest the runes vs your killing potential. Also that later on you can give your bottle to supports (if you have Aegis/don't need it longer) and they can use it.
5) Is Agha a fucking a shit item?
Omnislash: attacks per ulti = 3/6/9 (6/9/12* aghs) ."If you are able to reduce your attack time under 0.4 seconds per attack, you can do a basic attack per Omnislash jump."
If Attack time < 0.4 sec you do:
(ignore lvl 1 ult because you won't have aghs before lvl 6 and attack time is always > 0.4 sec at that point)
lvl 2 ult - 1200-1350 dmg + 6 auto attacks compared to 1800-2025* agha dmg
lvl 3 ult - 1800-2025 dmg + 9 auto attacks compared to 2400-2700* agha dmg
Also, Aghs has pretty shit cost/overall because it doesn't give much benifit for your auto attacks for the cost (compared to maelstrom/yasha/eaglehorn or even MoM which are cheaper and able to decrease attack time to also give more benifit for ulti). It this the item you get when you already lost your game (you are really poor and someone else in your team is gonna take pos 1 farm priority)?
6) Blink: what's the point of it? Splitpush? Switching targets during ulti (you can use items during it)? Faster farming?
7) What is the "ordinary" jug build?
I stalked some Matrice jug builds and they are pretty good:
e.g. final build has 1454.47 dmg/second (Phase Boots + Yasha + Mael -> Blink ->Mjolnir + Butter + Abyssal).
What item order can also also effective?