General DiscussionMelody discusses Jugg viability options.

I made this post in a different thread, with little response to. I decided to make a different thread for it and syntax it out. This is how I feel jugg is viable in the current state and what roles he can fill and how those roles will/should function with item / skill order.

Of course as of all of dota, everything is a variable. Nothing is written in stone and everything is in response to how to game state is. More or less a long rant of opinions.

Feel free to comment or ask questions/suggest edits.

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Right of attributes: “technical” roles as listed by valve.
Roles that I feel the hero can play will be tagged with “[ ]” overridden by support role. Support role will always be tagged with
“( )”If valve has the hero listed as a support there will be no parenthesis around it, only for heroes that I feel personally can be assigned there. Roles that I feel the hero are incapable of will be striked out.

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Juggernaut
Melee Agility
[Semi] Carry / Pusher / [Offlaner] / [Initiator]

[size=20][Color=#30e9ff]What roles I think are viable: [/color][/size]
Solo off / Safelane Carry / Situational Mid

[size=20][Color=#30e9ff]How the hero is supposed to function in the listed roles: [/color][/size]
[Color=#ee82ee]Solo off:[/color]
Leech levels, contest pulls if possible, Rotate at six / possibly take jungle for farm. Rotate as required, burn ult when off cd.

[color=#ee1b00]Safelane Carry:[/color]
Two different takes on this. 1 : Use crits/mom to farm fast, and attempt to shoot for late mid-game/ early late-game. 2: Push oriented style with healing ward, spin/ult to disengage.

[color=#ffa500]Mid:[/color]
Fast six, hard to be harassed out with healing ward or spin to protect from ganks. Use level advantage to rotate easily and secure kills when ult is off cd.

[size=20][Color=#30e9ff]Item choices for listed roles:[/color][/size]
[size=16]Starting:[/size]
[Color=#ee82ee]Offlane:[/color]
Tango (or pooled x2 tango)
Stout shield. This much is 100% required (Unless you have RoP, and plan to get shield from shop early on.), the other items depend enemy heroes and your preferred item build.

Situational:
Branches - Extra stats for lane IE vs slark etc. (clockwerk 1)
Boots - If you can afford the greed, if you are to get boots your next item MUST be stout shield as you can’t afford it.
Clarity/Salve- Extra regen if wanted.
Observer ward/Sentry - Vs enemy jungle if heroes IE: enigma/chen are present or to have vision behind treelines/runes.
Slippers of agility- If you plan on making poor man’s shield / wraith band (for aquila)
Ring of Protection- If you are doing the basi/aquila instead of the soul ring offlane.
Quelling blade- If you can afford, it will help your few CS be guaranteed or at least better chances vs opposing support denies.

[color=#ee1b00]Safelane Carry:[/color]
Tango (or pooled tango), Ring of protection, to build into aquila, Early stout shield and quelling blade.

Situational:
Boots- if you can be pooled regen and are planning to be hyper aggressive in lane, however you will be very light on regen and will be susceptible to harass.
Salve- Doesn't hurt to be a little safe, however putting a point in healing ward early will decrease the need for a salve.
Branches-Stats
Slippers of agility-For Poor man’s shield or working towards Aquila.
Clarity-If you are planning on pushing early, this helps with keeping mana up for ward.

[color=#ffa500]Mid:[/color]
Pooled tangos- Regen without cost.
Stout shield >into> poor man’s shield- This minimizes harass and gives you stats for better CS.

Situational:
Quelling blade- Vs hard hitting mids
RoP- If you are planning on making aquila.
Salve- Spare regen.

[size=16]Early game: [/size]
[Color=#ee82ee]Offlane:[/color]
Boots- Your choice of phase or treads. Phase being if you are not making drums, Treads if you are doing the Drum/Manta or SnY build.
Bottle/Aquila/Soul ring - Pick one, it’s situational, but try them all a few times to realize when each is optimal for the game.
Poor man’s shield & Quelling blade- This will help you when you are in lane and when you decide to rotate to jungle in mid ish or when your lane is overrun. (Bone7 tends to make Aquila, soul ring seems outdated but I think it's still viable, especially in pubs, as is bottle with rotating for runes)
Morbid mask >into> Vlads or Mask of madness- It’s whatever the team needs really, if we benefit heavily from vlads and there is no one that will make, then take that. Otherwise Mask of madness will give you immense farm speed in jungle and pushing waves.
TP- Seriously, carry it.

Situational:
Smoke- For the lvl 6 rotation to wherever. Ensure the kill.
Medallion- For the 10 min rosh if we are doing that, otherwise gives you regen and armor in lane and ganks. Solid item.
Stick/Full wand- If you would like a few more random stats and some secured regen.
Bracer- If you are planning on making drums
Urn of Shadows- Strength, mana regen and tick damage which is nearly always secured in ganks from you. Ask a support if you are considering it.
Quarterstaff- If you are considering orchid. You gain Attack speed, great mana regen (1 MPS), increased mana pool size (+25 int x 1.4) a silence, and +30 damage from full orchid.

[color=#ee1b00]Safelane Carry:[/color]
Boots- Your choice of phase or treads. Phase being if you are not making drums, Treads if you are doing the Drum + Manta or SnY build. Phase is more common by far, because of the lack of will to make drums in the mid-game due to other items taking priority.
Aquila and/or bottle- Both are good, and sometimes together, depending on how much you are moving around the map will determine if you are going bottle or not. Aquila is somewhat standard.
Quelling blade & Stout/Poor man’s- These items will allow you more sustain in lane, easier to cs and less weary of harass.
Morbid mask >into> Mask of Madness- Giving you good attack speed, life steal and sustain. Great for clearing jungle, rosh and pushing. This item is core.

Situational:
Stick/Full wand- Good against heroes that spam spells and also helping your stats slightly with minor burst regen.
Smoke- If you want to make a fast rotation to spend your ult for accelerated farm.
Hand of midas- If you are with a slight advantage, or see other enemy heroes making this item. It will assure your levels and progression into the late game.

[color=#ffa500]Mid:[/color]
Bottle- Should be a given.
TP- Also a given.
Phase boots- Chase, damage, easier cs.
Morbid mask >into > Mask of madness- The core-est of items.

Situational:
Smoke- Good for rotations and ganks.
Stick/Full Wand- Added stats/sustain during ganks.
Bracer- Added tank vs enemy rotations.
Medallion- Armor, regen and added gank/rosh potential.

[size=16]Mid game: [/size]
[Color=#ee82ee]Offlane:[/color]
This hero varies immensely in this stage of the game, depending on what the game state is like and your prefered item choices. I will just list all items as situational for mid-game as they are reliant on previous choices.

Situational:
Shadowblade- For making space, rotations/initiating and somewhat escape(not really.)
Drums of endurance- More stats as well as increased chase/escape/push potential.
Manta style- Illusion jukes, push potential, scouting, pushing waves and jukes, move/attack speed and more stats.
SnY- For cheap mid-game presence/tank, easy to chase/kite with as well as the maimed slow.
Aghs- If you were able to snowball off of your rotates this will make every support spend 1600 gold. Also able to solo 80% of other heroes at 16 that lack an escape/evade.
Black king bar- if they have serious disables/silences.
Desolator- Great farm/rosh/pushing item, good vs high armor heroes or buff supports IE: Lich/Ogre/Axe/Clock/Sven/Timber/Dk/Dazzle
Diffusal- Purging debuffs, mana drain and a slow.
Orchid- Silence
Blink- Initiating and/or blink during ult to redirect target.
Heaven’s Halberd- Evasion, disarm.
Maelstrom- Lightning procs vs heavy push or illusion carries.
Basher- Added Damage + bash

[color=#ee1b00]Safelane Carry:[/color]
Yasha >into> Manta- Gives you illusions for accelerated farm and push potential. Stats/Jukes may vary.
Basher- Allows insane DPS with MoM active. Bashes + your attack speed is a semi disable.

Situational:
SnY- For cheap mid-game presence/tank, easy to chase/kite with as well as the maimed slow.
Aghs- If you were able to snowball this will make every support spend 1600 gold. Also able to solo 80% of other heroes at 16 that lack an escape/evade.
Black king bar- if they have serious disables/silences.
Desolator- Great farm/rosh/pushing item, good vs high armor heroes or buff supports IE: Lich/Ogre/Axe/Clock/Sven/Timber/Dk/Dazzle
Diffusal- Purging debuffs, mana drain and a slow.
Maelstrom- Lightning procs vs heavy push or illusion carries.

[color=#ffa500]Mid:[/color]
Manta style- Illusion jukes, push potential, scouting, pushing waves and jukes, move/attack speed and more stats.
Diffusal- Purging debuffs, mana drain and a slow.
Basher- Added Damage + bash

Situational:
Shadowblade- For making space, rotations/initiating and somewhat escape(not really.)
Drums of endurance- More stats as well as increased chase/escape/push potential.
SnY- For cheap mid-game presence/tank, easy to chase/kite with as well as the maimed slow.
Aghs- If you were able to snowball off of your rotates this will make every support spend 1600 gold. Also able to solo 80% of other heroes at 16 that lack an escape/evade.
Black king bar- if they have serious disables/silences.
Desolator- Great farm/rosh/pushing item, good vs high armor heroes or buff supports IE: Lich/Ogre/Axe/Clock/Sven/Timber/Dk/Dazzle
Maelstrom- Lightning procs vs heavy push or illusion carries.

[size=16]Late game:[/size]
[Color=#ee82ee]Offlane:[/color]
Again this hero is so varied in this role as far as item options go. I will list all items as situational.

Situational:
Skadi- Extreme tankiness, slow and more stats.
Super basher- Added disable, damage.
Butterfly- Evasion, damage and flutter.
MkB- True strike, minibash.
Mjolnir- Vs illusion carries/attack speed and great farm speed.
Satanic- After selling your other lifesteal option ofc.
Eth blade- Disable, good damage however note that this can be detrimental to your ultimate if you are careless.
Sheep- Added disable
Refresher- Cooldown Reset, double ult/abby blade/manta.
AC- Armor, added damage and attack speed.
Divine Rapier- I hope to god you will never have to make this as an offlane jugg but eh, anything is possible I guess.

[color=#ee1b00]Safelane Carry:[/color]
Skadi- Extreme tankiness, slow and more stats.
Super basher- Added disable, damage.
Butterfly- Evasion, damage and flutter.
MkB- True strike, minibash.

Situational:
Mjolnir- Vs illusion carries/attack speed and great farm speed.
Satanic- After selling your other lifesteal option ofc.
Eth blade- Disable, good damage however note that this can be detrimental to your ultimate if you are careless.
Sheep- Added disable
Refresher- Cooldown Reset, double ult/abby blade/manta.
AC- Armor, added damage and attack speed.
Divine Rapier- Sometimes you just need to hit like a truck...

[color=#ffa500]Mid:[/color]
Skadi- Extreme tankiness, slow and more stats.
Super basher- Added disable, damage.
Butterfly- Evasion, damage and flutter.
MkB- True strike, minibash.
AC- Armor, added damage and attack speed.

Situational:
Mjolnir- Vs illusion carries/attack speed and great farm speed.
Satanic- After selling your other lifesteal option ofc.
Eth blade- Disable, good damage however note that this can be detrimental to your ultimate if you are careless.
Sheep- Added disable
Refresher- Cooldown Reset, double ult/abby blade/manta.
Divine Rapier- Sometimes you just need to hit like a truck..

[size=20][Color=#30e9ff]Skill builds for listed roles:[/color][/size]
[Color=#ee82ee]Offlane:[/color]
As far as professional offlane jugg goes,, Bone.7 tends to first point crit, however you are not Bone 7. I expect to see a spin to prevent your first blood. However with this being said, jugg is very versatile and can be skilled to suit. I don’t believe there is a “definite skill order for jugg so long as you Take your ult at 6/11/16 and have at least one point in EACH “Spin” , “Healing ward” and “Crit” by level 6.

Two bone 7 skill builds

[color=#ee1b00]Safelane Carry:[/color]
There are more or less two builds for safe lane with slight variations applied to each situationally. I personally have no clue what determines the changes to order of these or when they should be altered, however I will attempt to cover both to some manner.

The first is the crit heavy build as seen by EE, this maximises the rate at which you can farm, push waves and deal damage. A point of stats may be taken sometimes if needed, but again, I have no idea when this should be applied.

EE crit build

The healing ward and spin levels may be swapped depending on how lane looks. A single point of stats are leveled occasionally in this build.

Burning stat build

This provides maximum bonuses to your HP/Armor/Mana pools, while decreasing your dps slightly due to lack of crit. I believe this build is better suited for early pushes while the other will maximize farm potential.

[color=#ffa500]Mid:[/color]
This varies as it does with offlane. If you are fearing the gank in the first 2 minutes, take spin lvl one, otherwise follow the EE crit build with some variance as needed. This will assure that you are able to CS vs the enemy mid and rotate to jungle camps easily when lane is on the other cliff. Just have more crit than other skills, 1 point in spin, 1-2 healing ward, and stats as you’re comfortable with.

[size=20][Color=#30e9ff]General idea of what the player should be trying to do with the hero:[/color][/size]
[Color=#ee82ee]Offlane:[/color]
Take farm and levels when you are able. Create space and assist struggling or even lanes. Rotate for pushes, dives, runes, and/or rosh. Smoke as needed, always have tp. Burn ult if you are confident you can kill solo, otherwise hold it and use to disengage fights. Ulti is a minibash, will stop tps.

[color=#ee1b00]Safelane Carry:[/color]
Follow the game plan, either preparing to push early and work towards towers and mid-game or maximize farm. Always carry a Tp, and have mana pool to Spin/TP incase of a gank or such. Use ult to either disengage, engage, or when heavy carry focus comes to you. Be sure to cast ward in team fights. Check your items and consider rosh. Be able to farm lanes and enemy jungle aggressively (with note of where heroes are on map ofc.), your ability to Spin/TP makes it remotely safe to farm anywhere you like. Have proper mana management.

[color=#ffa500]Mid:[/color]
Out cs with crit/phase, rotate to jungle with lane is far out and take a hard camp. Play it like you would a QoP, except you’re a qop that can farm better and rosh solo, ha. Heavy roam, with some jungle//lane tax. Smoke frequently and always carry a tp. TP/Spin will get you out of deep enemy jungle, and far into pushed lanes, so dont be afraid to farm whenever so long as you have vision of 1 or 2. Gain an advantage and keep it.

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Again, MORE or less me just ranting to rant, however, this info might be informative to someone so I figured I would share.
>incoming flame.
>No I am not bringing back guides, jesus christ.