General DiscussionJust wow.. alch farms whole team Aghs in 30 mintues?

i dont get people saying alch is op

he needs a completely free lane

he has horrible armor

his scaling into real lategame is garbage

its incredibly easy to make stun backfire

giving supports aghs is something that basically only happens once ur six slotted, so in a game where you shut down alch (which should be every time because its not hard at all in pubs) his "buffs" mean jack shit

[URL="http://imgur.com/jtB7w9S"]btw i can hit 1700 gpm in an empty lobby with alch, taking greed as far out of normal game context as possible means pretty much nothing[/URL]

just pick ud against him no biggi

@JDF8 do that in a 5 stack then talk bro. Not sure if u been in Alch games but yea. Usually be 30 minutes, even if your team is winning on towers & kills by 2:1 ratio, you can still lose.

alch needs a few farming items first like a battlefury or radiance.
If you support your alch properly he gets fat really fast. by supporting properly I just mean stacking actually, alch can zone pretty well by him self.

i'm the one that did that and i still think alchemist is trash rofl

that game is just an example of what happens when the team can win 4v5 without the alch

Alche is trash, nothing changed about that in this patch. Last patch alchemist couldn't even reach 2 item, no reason that a "buff" that need to buy more item is actually a viable buff to him.

^I disagree, think people are gonna run him at ti5.

^i agree, at first i thought his agha buff was only usable ONCE and that it also kept one of his slot locked, so it would actually be useless.
but since its infinite + takes no slots, well you know, back then when you farmed with alch you were fullstuff min 30 and then nothing happend, now u can farm aghas, in 5min, which is a huge adventage at some point in the game. the team with freee aghs every five min will obviously have super hudge adventage.

but if alchemist is faced (oh god that shit is even squishier than tb and deal less damage) you'll never gonna reach those item

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1447810414

aghs for all team who careas lel, i got radiance at like min 30 and won lol (my stack played really bad too)

If you cant contest alch you will lose for sure because it will snowball so hard you will cry. But if you contest that and slow the farm of him you can actually get ahead of him. Depends on how well you control him, i personally liked the buff since now you can play alch carry.

If you let an alchemist freefarm like that, you're losing already. I'm sure valve isn't worried about this happening in TI5, because any pro team (or any competent team for that matter) wouldn't let something even close to this happen.

Nerf Zenoth.

Why nerf alche for TI5 when they can ban him since it is CM?

I still think the hero is trash

think it will be popular with chinese. we shall see. bounty 400 gold is retarded tho.

look at how op alch is http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1450561167

How would he be run in a competitive setting?

Protect him so he can get his farming items + get 6 slotted...then make sure you secured an actual late gamer to compensate for him falling off, switch roles and farm Aghanim's for the rest of the team? That doesn't sound very likely to happen.

He clearly sucks as carry but for Some random strat rushing aganim or something he might work^^

Am i the only one here on entire forum who remembers alchi wrecking faces and loda and xbost playing it?
Where do these "trash" and "clearly suck as a carry" comments come from?

Meta might not suit certain picks hence you dont see them or they completely fall off but the hero who has the highest gpm possibility in the game will never suck as a carry. When the whole point of your "carry" role is grind x items in x minutes and fight. Add 2 items on top that your alchi will have compared to their carry at x minutes (make those two items bkb and refresher perhaps) and youll see how you wont be able to steam roll all over enemy team.

Like i said, we will see. Chinese can play some of the most disciplined dota i didnt think it was even possible, so if someone utilize it it will be them.

Its like me saying meepo is trash hero because he isnt used in competitive. Im not that clueless.

Don't worry man, that game didn't even count Kappa

@xan
i gues those ones saying that alch sucks mean current patch/meta. and under this assumption they are right tbh - alch doesnt fit rly well atm, since he cant deal with early agression and strong offlane. Ofc you can stomp with him as well as with any other hero, but on average he's still not that viable as he was back in the old days.

nerf alch what???
slark ursa, undying gh gh gh

As opposed to which carries that thrive from facing agression on their safe lane?
In a normal game scenario, which is the most common, you wont have viper ud lich vs your alchi safe lane.

We will see, im prepared to eat some humble pie comes ti5, i love pie. But i wont.

@matrice yeah well im sure there are lots of possible line ups to make it work.

@xan

back when alchemist was picked, mostly during the TI3 meta, he was usually run one of two ways:

semi-utility mid/safe - an example would be xboct in the finals. back then stun had a longer channeling time, would finish channeling in the air, his ulti gave hp, so even without farm he was significantly more useful utility wise - teams would then transition him into a carry if it went late enough

old fashion chinese style - whenever the chinese played each other or teams that they knew would prefer to secure farm on the carry as opposed to denying farm to the enemy, that was when heroes like alchemist or AM shined. their playstyle revolved around a literal 4p1, with 2 other utility cores in mid and off - often the offlane hero would just straight up abandon the lane since he knew it would be a defensive tri, and instead just start from the jungle

but since then the meta has changed, duo off is much more common now and certain offlane heroes will straight up make life difficult for heroes like alch

in my opinion, alchemist and tb are very similar in many aspects. both of them will farm like a monster if given space, and can use items somewhat decently. however the problem is the part about being given space. every single time i picked TB i would be facing an aggressive tri, with the mid rotating in to kill me. after the nerfs, he can't even jungle well - and once they establish dominance in the aggro tri, the core just needs to stay in the lane while the supports roam around and hunt you

alchemist fares slightly better with acid spam, but he's even squishier than TB. he needs levels in non-greed if he wants to have any hope of contesting a pressured lane, which defeats the purpose of having an alchemist. he basically screams for your team to be able to win 4v5, in which case you could probably win the game with any other carry anyway.

but that goes for any hero like i said. if you are facing an aggro 3 lane no carry is gonna love that scenario, and your farm is gonna suffer. its not only alchemist problem.
also unlike tb, he can clear stacks at somewhat reasonable pace with acid. so he's comeback in the game is a bit easier than tb would have in his place. + a goblins greed which just shits items if you can get some space to breathe.

and the most important change of all, there will be games where you will farm. you know times when both teams are just sitting idle waiting for new roshan to spawn farming for 6 minutes or so. those games that either team is just waiting for a proper moment. well in those 6 minutes alchi can farm a full aghs for a support, say AA or visage or whatever ward bitch you had, and that can actually be changer. everyone had a carry with 10k gold sitting in his bank unable to spend it. imagine having alch with these changes in those games..