General Discussion

General DiscussionAnother rant. Why? Because fuck logic!

Another rant. Why? Because fuck logic! in General Discussion
naruto

    So recently there has been a trend going on in the dota 2 community of which i dont understand the logic and i think it is a situational thing, rather than a must.

    The trend that I am talking about is getting mega creeps before trying towin the game.In all honesty i think this is garbage, especially if the enemy team already has a farmed carry and your team is kinda struggling to get the win. Just in the past 2 days, I have played 3 games, 2 of which had this little trend going on. The matches were won but my team and I came so close to throwing the game because we tried to take their last remaining bottom baracks.The ancient probably had around 2k HP left. And my idiot team mates decided it was a good idea to go for the bottom baracks, completely disregarding the fact that the enemy had no baracks top, mid and their ancients had half of its health left. Being the guy that I am, I've decided to not stray away from my team, because either way we will be playing at a disadvantage (4v5 when they are without me and 1v5 if i try to take the ancient).
    We tried to take the bottom barack, and we failed a couple of teamfights. Rather than just rushing the ancients we spent another 20 mins trying to take the baracks... Ofcourse we never did take their bot rax.

    So after the teamwhiped us they were trying to end it. It was 50 mins into the game that my team mates got a fucking clue that taking the ancient was the right choice.

    If you are in a close game, please consider the optimal choice for victory. Mega creeps are not a guaranteed victory.Taking the ancient is.

    i love u butt

      A trend? It has been this way since 10 years ago, when riki still casted death wards and the competitve teams fought for the top prize pool of 500 bucks.

      The more unorganised your team is the more likely you will prefer to take raxs. For you to go straight throne means you have a serious crushing advantage to sit in their base and tank all the creep spawns and 3 towers (assuming you break in from the start)
      And if you are playing solo queue, don't expect to go straight base and "avoid the new trend"

      And the opponents are that much closer to their fountain/respawn site/healing pool. Seriously, some heroes can crap on you even if you had raped their mums and dads early game. Eg tinker, ember, sniper etc.

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      MARLAN

        idk.

        in my experience getting mega creeps is 99% victory.

        getting megas is usually easier AND safer than throning.

        of course if you think you can throne before they respawn, of course go for it. but if you aren't sure (IE they have 2 heroes alive, 1 more spawning in 15, and cores in 25) just do the safe thing and take their barracks. it's a farther walk for them.

        naruto

          @Marlan mega creeps are safer if you play against casters. Do you know how easy it is for a right click carry to take down whole wave of megas? Mega creeps dont mean shit, they are just a way to humiliate your opponent.

          Rocket

            well, a right click carry can take down 3 lanes of megas in his base but it is another thing entirely to push the lanes sufficiently to threaten your base.

            going throne is a higher risk, go home early strategy. mega creeps is pretty much gg but might take 5mins longer.

            tbh seems unlikely that you would've taken the throne if you couldn't manage the rax.

            MARLAN

              100 dmg/hit x5-20 creeps is a buttfuckton of damage.

              Unless you have a good splasher (For example: Gyro) they will still take chunks out of anyone who fights them.

              Furthermore, unless you retard suicide into their base, they literally can NEVER leave their base. EVERY fight is going to be at LEAST 4v5. But if they leave a shitty support behind he will not be able to hold the line. He can try to bait a lane into the fountain, but the other 2 are throning them.

              Basically, if you mega them. They MUST teamwipe you, and they MUST throne you with their 2 cores pushing while the rest of the team defends before you respawn. That's asssuming you don't have buy-back. In which case they can never win

              plz do

                if u can end fast, end fast ofc. If u cannot, u take rax asap. Hard decision to make.
                splitpush, make them sweat and then sneak into their base w smoke :> dont forget to ward hg. also u can attack t3, if u have creeps in their base - then u dont have to fight vs their hg advantage. 60% of that is to keep all lanes pushed. That takes not alot and can be achieve alone by you. learn how to avoid ur "trend situation" and when to back out cuz they can buyback and make it basically a 5v10 if necessary. smells like 3k anyways. Ive seen those bad decisions and horrible hg pushes there alot.

                tl;dr i guess u know all this anyways. so, what Rocket said.

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                quity

                  If you can mega them in one succesful swing than it's fine. Won a game the other day because the enemies tried to take rax eventhough we had a hard time defending just our throne. We won three teamfights and won with one barrack standing.

                  By one swing I mean, without loosing your momentum. If you let the enemies farm up by splitting up and giving unnecessary kills they may win depending on their push speed.

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                  Dire Wolf

                    Unless they have a carry with cleave attacks and lifesteal/regen they cannot clear megas indefinitely, the towers will slowly take dmg. And they have to have more than one to be able to clear them and still push out to win. People who come back from megas are almost always teams that either 4 man the base and have a ratter to go win like np or lycan while rest of team defends, or they have medusa or sniper with divine rapiers.

                    Like here. Killing throne was never an option anyway, we barely squeeze out megas by split pushing with razor + aghs and np on other rax. Their high ground D was just too fucking strong with AA, witch dr and sniper. Once we got megas they still held out for 15 more minutes but they were never able to push out of base desipte sniper and weaver both having divines (sniper fed his to PA last push).

                    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1532678409

                    But I do understand your frustration, many times you can just throne and teams don't realize. Problem is most pubs are not aware of buyback status. If you start throning and all the carries buyback you can sometimes wipe, and most pubs will not back off in time.