General DiscussionNaga Support

Scepter on her is actually extremely powerful.

I guess she is really good vs blink heroes because of Ensnare.

Pick her when your lane doesn't need a ranged participant to outzone people, since Naga is kinda weak on the lane.

sucks ...shes rarely picked in pros and can fuck up everything especially 4k< mmr dont play him unless u can farm aghanim while suporting if our that good before minute 25

Situational pick to counter Techies or initiation-reliant teams.

Works well with: Razor (use sleep after Static Link), Ursa (net keeps enemies in place even if they have BKB, armor reduction helps to kill Roshan faster), Lycan (7 seconds sleep is just enough for him to break enemy base, and, just like Ursa, he likes to farm Roshan as well).

She's a void hard counter but that's about it. Void chronos, you pop ult, reset fight and kill them without chrono up. I guess in that thinking she could counter some other heroes as well but you'd have to leave the fight entirely like vs a ck or dk, wait for their ults to go away then fight them. But they can just push ur towers while you wait.

^There is nothing similar between Void and CK/DK. Void is closer to heroes like Enigma or Axe, so you can use Naga to counter these heroes too.

Yeah dk ck thing probably is not a good idea, I was trying to think of long cd ults. Doom would work, doom cd is a lot longer than naga ult cd, it last 15 seconds but naga can reset the fight and everyone can run until the doom wears off, forcing doom to burn a refresher or fight without ult up.

learn to pentastack the jungle

naga+kolt+ carry with stun ez mmr, plus go gg boots and vlads, i suggest never going aghs such a waste of 4.2k gold

i can see how could this work out, you could make a lot of stacks

but, the question is. what then?

supports don't become irrelevant in the midgame->lategame.

you'll only have a ult to save and set up a fight, but enemy can react to that. the net isn't enough of a contribution

but i guess it possibly could work if you master stacking and have a carry that can early enough take all of them so you can re-stack.

you only have ult and net to contribute to fights, your other 2 skills are pretty much almost irrelevant

@Mekarazium
Any support can die in attempt to zone Void. This doesn't prove anything.

@🍩🍪Cookie🍪🍩
Logic behind support Naga is simple: if supports can save enough gold to buy Blink, they can save enough gold for Radiance.

you are a treant picker and you should kys

@Mekarazium
Have you tried Clockwerk? Idea is to burn his mana with Cogs and then you can try to kill him with Battery Assult (and some help from your carry, of course).

But in general, if you try to zone Void alone, it's nearly impossible, unless Void is extremely bad. It doesn't matter if you ranged or not.

P.S. Also, I heard, that <2k MMR players use PA as support, they start with OOV and a stack of clarities, so they can spam daggers whole day... I guess, even Void can't do much about it. =)

Just jungling around while our carry advantage, Song of Siren is good for initiating or escaping like Dark Rift.

Pick an alch with her, use acid spray and riptide, pool early aghs and deathball?

#normalskilltheorycrafting #instareport

@soultrap

are sou serious, you can't compare a 2k gold item to a 5k gold item.

@🍩🍪Cookie🍪🍩
How often your endgame networth is less than 5k? Besides, Radiance is 3800 gold item basically...

you're gonna be running around as a support with 3k++ gold for nothing. . .

one death and you're fucked, why? because you're not a core

you don't get to freely farm that radiance.

and i don't know how you're getting hte money for a raidiance anways

100g per minute is the passive gold, there's no way you can get it sub 40 min with no farming space, not to mention the wards you have to buy and the fights you have to take

It's hard, but not impossible. Just don't buy wards. =)

Luckily you are not going to die that easily, you are fucking Naga after all.

are you not just going to starve the original cores if you build a radiance on a support naga and end up with 4 not very farmed cores and one extremely poor support?

then you're not a support, you're a shitty core.

if you're not doing your job, but you're not doing what a core naga would be

then you're just useless.

If you talk politely to your second support: "I'll buy all the wards, smokes, gems or whatever team needs after I finish my Radiance. Can you cover this task before that?" He'll probably understand.

Where are your other cores farming after you get radiance?

^Ancients and Roshan. =)

it'll take you at least 40 min as a support naga to get your radiance without actually stealing farm from your cores.

you're saying "I'll buy all the wards, smokes, gems or whatever team needs after I finish my Radiance. Can you cover this task before that?"

translation: i'll be fucking useless for the majority of the game, please other support go f**k yourself

There are different strategies in this game. Granted, some of them are better than others, but this one is not bad. It aims for late game where having an extra core will give your team advantage.

At least it works in competitive DOTA...

P.S. And what do you mean by: "go F yourself". I'll be happy to be kind of support that runs around with nothing more than pair of boots at 40 minutes.

Competitive dota players don't rush godamn radiance on support naga.

if they do, it's because of great ganks and the ability of a semisupport to transition to a core.

they use her power of net and multiple stacking to set up her carries and snowbal during the early/midgame

pub=/=pro

Competitive dota players don't rush godamn radiance on support naga.
if they do, it's because of great ganks and the ability of a semisupport to transition to a core.

You said something like: "they don't, but they do because they can".

what it means is, you start as a proper support.

this can apply to any game, but if you somehow start snowbaling now you have an excess amount of gold.

meaning you can transition into a core, and leave the other support to go full support.

the difference between that and rushing radiance is the gold needed.

if you take away farm from your cores then you're useless, but here you started snowballing and you have excess free gold due to ganks/kills/pushes.

you can transition ANY support into a core.

but you can't transition a core into a support.

what you want to do is the opposite, you want to take farm and then use that farm to support, that can't happen. you can't transition a core into a support.

so if a pro starts snowballing hard on a support naga he can just transition into a core naga.

meanwhile a pubber is trying to directly push a support into a core without any farm.

you can't copy paste pros without understanding what they do.

From what I saw in pro games, they let support Naga to farm easy lane after their carry gets some items and level to efficiently farm in jungle. Or they let Naga to farm mid lane, after mid gets to his power level and starts ganking or mid moves to jungle.

It's unlikely to happen in pub, but sometimes I find myself on an empty lane as a support without any idea what to do. You know... It's hard to leave those delicious creeps, but they just keep coming and you don't know when to stop...

I doubt you can transition CM into a core. Her power level ends too early. She needs to be core from beginning and snowball, or she'll be support for the rest of a game. And it's not only CM...

Arguing that you can get Radiance at any relevant time on #4 / #5 Naga is just plain stupid. You get 100gpm baseline, assuming no wards and perhaps 2-3 creeps per min you're looking at around 200gpm AFTER the 10 minute mark. This is being VERY generous and assuming you are never needed to fight as a support, never die, and your cores for some reason decide they never want to pressure lanes. How long is it gonna take you just for relic? Assuming you spent your starting gold and then never bought tps, wards, regen, ect your relic is gonna come out at approx min 23. Not only that, you're having no freakin impact other than farming creeps as a support. Thats not even a support naga any more, thats a retard who decided to pick a fourth core and pretends he's a support.

^I don't see why it's bad, there is another support who buys wards anyway.

And how do you come to a number of 2-3 creeps per minute? If carry leaves a lane for Naga to farm she will get as many lasthits as carry had there.

I can see an argument for transitioning a support naga into a core. for example, you got the first blood and another couple of kills and couple of t1s and suddenly find yourself with 2k gold 10min in.

or its clear the game hasn't gone well and you're going to need to turtle for 20mins, maybe you need the pushing capabilities of radiance.

this is very different to passively getting a radiance though.

anyway, how does it work out for oyu in practice?

Why are you assuming that Naga is going to get all the lh? Do her cores suddenly not need the delicious exp / gold of lane creeps? Is the enemy not pressuring her at all? Even if you're getting 5-6 lh per min, that radiance isn't coming until at least past the 20 min mark. Which since for some reason the #4 decided she was gonna do fuck all for the first 20 mins means there's a 90% chance you've already been ran over and are holding onto your t3s for dear life. I've never seen games that aren't total stomps work out the way you imagine them.

it will only work out if you actually did great ganks and started snowballing.

also there were countless cm games that i played where i transitioned from ward bitch into a core.

you get glimmer bkb scepter blink and you got an insane high dps ult.

i once even got a double rampage as crystal maiden due to snowballing.

but there's no way i could re-create that without actually starting to snowball in the first place.

if i were to try that in an game where im anywhere except snowballing, all i'd do is help the enemy end the game faster.

Our long dispute only shows that DOTA 2 is very complex game, and everyone has his own view onto how to play this game right. I respect your opinions and thank you for this conversation, but I'm afraid that we are running out of arguments and next post may be full of s**t. Lets end here. =)