General Discussionwhat make juggernaut and morphling so viable in this meta?

morphing is the fact that once he's 6 slot he's practically invincible and has stupid damage which is better than am and spectre

Juggernaut can carry hard, contribute early, much earlier than sven. Morph is the opposite but can farm fast with waveform and with replicate. He does lose to am but not cuz am is a harder carry but because of mana burn. Against spectre morph can even destroy here by kiting with pike and skadi and waveform. Plus he can replicate the spectre and get her radiance burn. With shotgun he just gibs a support and makes the fight almost instantly 4v5.

i know the effect of shotgun combo, but if the enemies are high hp supp (ogre or jakiro) what can morph do? i also use morph to counter radiance carriers (alche, spectre, and works really well); what i need to know, is tempo strategies, pick combinations, the things that make pro prayers succed with these heroes, and the reason they are afraid of them (fear enough to ban them)

Morphling: faster than average base attack speed (so an additional attack speed counts a bit more than your average hero), highest "battle stat" gain (and with stat morph bonus it beats any other heroes gain by far), many ways for extra mobility and tricks. Also when initiated on, he can just turn into a huge dmg sink by morphing to str and even getting a huge stun, while his team gets there to do the dirty work.

Juggernaut has an even faster, exceptional base attack speed, an innate magic immunity that can help him get out of casual ganks, a critical that makes his average damage output well above average, an ulti that can be devastating in the right situation and the healing ward placed well can support pushes on hg pretty well.

Both can be useful against many lineups.

Really you're asking this? Morph is unkillable with that stupid str gain and linkens and wave form. Jug is incredibly flexible to build and healing ward is near broken. Scales as well as Sven into late just more single target focused.

Because it's team play not solo

once jug gets diffusal manta abyssal blink hes a fucking nightmare to deal with

morph is super good at ratting, very difficult to kill, great in fights, and scales very well

^Do u blink abyssal manta someone w jugg to blow them up (like am) or is that the Wrong play style and you should save Manta for something elsse?

I like OPs question. Agreed jugg used to be stronger and maybe not as strong but still a favorite pick in pubs and pro. Maybe cuz of flexibility to draft. He asked an interesting question about tempo and pick combinations that make these heroes so liked.

Not sure about morph, but probably very annoying to deal with his split push if he can solo you w shotgun, enemy team have to 5 man a lot. Or face rat potential. With jug I think it's his healing wards that is broken in a teamplay environment that makes him favourable.

Even high hp supports will get rekt by shotgun. U can add a waveform too, if they dont die. Plus he is so hard to kill, and his late game dps is insane. Stat based dps is easily the most effecient way to gain dps, and thats what morph is abt. Also what is the morph build past linkens eblade? Manta, skadi, pike?

Manta/skadi/whatever your team needs, almost all damage items are handy at morphling. Or counter items, if needed (MKB/Butter) or BKB can play if enemy is too magic heavy.

usually u just blink manta on someone and purge and fuck their shit

but if its someone who have bkb / ghost yeah blink abyssal

+ blink is good with omnislash, diffusal manta makes u unaproachable if theres no aoe, u push like a monster and healing ward is gr8

but im not a jug player either tbh

Jugg is strong because he is so versatile, you can mid or safelane pretty comfortably, you can even dual offlane or roam if need be. Build wise as well you can go anything from a super greedy BF rush to play for lategame, yasha->diffusal rush to be a midgame hero killer, vanguard rush to anchor 5 man tower pushing etc. This versatility makes him a top pick since he fits into any strategy and doesn't really give anything away when picked.

Roaming jugg? It cant be as good as roaming ck

You don't even mention the notorious Jungle Jugg? its the only way to play him tbh.

jungle carrys SUCKS, in other hand, what about pick antimage, let u skip diff and blink, and mana void (after 2 seconds hiting) have the same+ potential that omnislash.. so what make jugg strong is versatility, mid, safe, off, mid game, late.. can be good any time at any lane, antimage only safe lane/ late game..

but i once see an antimage farm a shadow blade and vanguard and he snowball really hard.. fortunately, i win =)

about morph, he is indeed strong, buti believe he lost so much potential whan have to build non-stats items like mkb to fight PA or bkb to fight lockdowns.. what u think about it?

You probably feel like these 2 heroes are weak because at your skill people dont micro the healing ward and people dont abuse morph split push ability without risks, also they dont go for a 20 minutes hg push abusing the healing ward potential.

Now that you mention jugg jungle I always thought its super dumb (and it probably is or at least in 5k bracket) but i played on my 4k smurf a jungle jugg, i had completely uncontested farm and I reached 90 cs by 10 minutes with a couple kills on the rune spot.

Jug jungle hasn't been good since that patch around sniper and troll what was it 6.86? I don't remember but he got armor and like 6 agi added that patch and was a jungle God. Nerfed since

yeah, am 3k player, people normaly mess up with pushing, only farm and farm and farm no matter the hero.. i tried jugg manta+diff but didnt work to me, i never have a team behind me when i want to take hg towers..

and.. i dont think morph is weak weak weak, just not a "3 STAR CARRY".. that clasification upset me..

mrph isnt even that good now

well i cant use morph sooo

Morph, dusa, spectre, ck r all extremely hard carries. Sven, slark r up there but both get really big really fast and just kinda deathball. Ive ended games six-slotted sven at 35 min.

sven is broken, 66 cleave that no one in the hells know how it works, a 2 sec AOE stun with insane dmg, a superop armor buff wich left dazz ultimate in ridiculous.. i hate sven right now, that sabre brokes him sooo hard

slark only problem is his dark pact, cuz i think his invisibility can be counter... thats why believe they arent 3 stars...