General Discussion

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latest status in General Discussion
John Cena

    Hi everybody.
    A couple of days ago the new patch 7.00 was released and I had to write a couple of lines about it. My opinion of this patch is very negative so you might wanna skip this or - if you are interested in feedback concerning dota 3 - read up:
    https://www.dotabuff.com/topics/2016-12-18-new-patch-ideas
    I assume you read my little story about the history of dota(link).
    So here is my update:
    First of all. I am not going to trashtalk the new patch, but I am not going to praise it either. I am trying to deal with the changes that happened. I find them bad, still... But how are they after my inspection of it.
    Well. The new patch is a lot of work. More than many think, i think. I think the new "talent-tree" is way more big of a deal then many people think it is. And i read a lot of the posts and other discussion-threats people post here (and on other pages aswell btw!).
    Do I hate the new patch? Personally, yes. Objectively, maybe not. The problem is that it was too big of a change too quickly, so me, having a life (a job, a wife and all) I cant follow these new intense changes anymore. For me this game, as a game that i play is over... sadly.
    BUT: The changes themselves aren't that bad. They are just too many one the same time. I want the creators of this patch to understand (if they ever read this and care about this of course!) that normal fans of the dota "dynasty" are happening to grow up, having a life and stuff. I can't... ... I litterally can't put in the time to play this game anymore with these big changes. It sounds pathetic to the normal person out there, the normal player out there, but it isn't. Let me show you quickly and estimated what I calculated...
    About 100 heroes (actually more than 110, but for the calculation downwards is better for this patch) witch the talent tree of 8 spells means easily that I have to follow 800 spells. For me, oldschool player - not even good and all- that means, I have to play at least every hero once or twice now to see, what it means to play him now. Because if I am playing a carry and I see my support - I need to know what I can ask him for.
    And 100 heroes times 800 spells in this calculation means that I would have to at least play every hero twice, ergo 200 games.
    200 games on the other hand for me is - let's say as a heavy hobby player of every day at least 2 games (?) - 3 months.
    Now.
    Is 3 months a period after 13 years that seems big?
    No. I doesn't. But the calculations hasn't endet, because the talent tree ins't the only change of this game.
    The map. The map has changed either.
    And before you go, that the map has changed before... It has. Yes. It has changed a lot, in fact, since I started playing dota. I was there very early again... yada yada...
    But it always happened in stages that were comprehensively, so you could follow it.
    I guess I have playes way more than 10k hours of this game, since wc3 and I had my high peakes and all. The trees have changed, the vision around the trees have changed with reborn and stuff ... the map developed yes! And some of the changes had to grow on me yes!
    But this map- change is very big, bigger than all the changes were before. And i can tell you why ... and you will in a few years agree on what i mean ... guaranteed:
    First of rosh:
    Is the rosh pit more in equilibrium than it was before? Yes AND No:
    It is the same. Sadly....
    Before it used to be said that it is more on the side of the scourge (sorry I never cared to learn dire and the other...), because of the towers nearby to it. And that is true!
    However now: Aren't the fountains of healing and blue buff (However they are called now?) really both equally distant to the roshpit? No, they aren't. Sentinet now has a favourite fountain- TP- Spot than before (Sorry my english). And both mid- towers are equally distant. Meaning over the course of time one side will eventually be prefeared to be better for rosh than the other and that is going to be the sentinel side!
    Is that high critique? Kinda, yeah. But I hear all the people complaining about how unbalanced it was and how it should be balanced and I see the this now.
    Let's call maths now: dot- Reflexion of the map would be the only correct balanced thing to do, but it still isn't that.
    So... no equilibrium there. And if you say other... you're wrong. Simple as that.
    Why was it good as it was before?
    Well easy boy: Because the patch 6. sth sth has been around for (Effing) 10 years. It might not have been perfectly balanced out yet. Yes. But the map was slow-developing into that. I have witnessed that. Long enough into that game ... I have seen that happening.

    You know what. On short note: If I really had to give the game desingers (Valve, Icefrog etc) a tip it would be this: It's a game, so make it even! Make the community better, by raising them like a father (as crazy as it sounds).
    Teach them to teamplay by featuring possibilities of teamleagues where you can meet players in your area and learn to play with them. Focus on growing teams, squads in their area so they can form some form of pride and group dynamics around dota. Make dota a possibility to get friends by effectivly protoming team mmr (which now is obviously shit)
    You know What. I am even going to sacrifice one entire paragraph on how shitty the single mode is technically. If Sports is made for friends sports is good! Easy truth, right? But why are all (or nearly all) of the most succesful dota youtube channels the ones, where we follow 9k solo-players? Miracle for example is a perfect 9k player, no doubt. But in team he has to fight different players, different problems, so to speak. OG didn't win, even if miracle is the shit!!!!!!
    If Dota2 was a game for friends, it would promote teams and friends a lot more than it does now. It would take care of people that had no friends online and would try to connect people of the same region. Clans for example would be supported and somehow by the game made important. Maybe throug better headset team communication possibilities, or maybe because the team mmr would be wwwaaaaayyyy mooooooorrrree important than it is right now.
    You could built up a community that has similarities to soccer or what now.
    Educational skills and (I don't know - maybe even trainers hired by valve for teams)
    Like... you could become a sport ... a real sport.

    Sigh. Well, obviously I am a Management Guy just being frustrated by this shit. So long did I play this game, my favourite game. I loved it. I litteralily loved it. I hate this now. 7.00 and following sucks. It just sucks. I first hated myself for hating 7.00, but I was free as soon as I accepted the fact that 7.00 sucks. I am free now. Fuck 7.00. Worst mistake I witnessed in my lifetime, ...literally.
    Man... It's been a long post. I know only kids will read this. And I am willing to read the non-answers of this if there are even any.

    For me, I'm still wondering why this happened. Nobody asked... nobody effing asked...
    typicall history ... there are no words... just...
    good night i guess..

    The Medic Guy

      you should make tl;dr dude

      TL;DR: he love dota, he hate 7.00, he cri, he whine, he go to sleep.

      Nile

        Why would I read any of this?

        John Cena

          REPOST: My bad, I didn't even finish my critiques on the new patch even close:
          Aside from the map and the talent tree (Which I btw didn't even scratch really) there are some more things I want to add to criticise:

          I obviously like the new hud: To make more vision was a great idea. I don't know and never knew since 7.00 why people complained about that, because it was cristal clear that this hud could be fixed in .. . . . . . . a day of one programmers work......
          The hud was never really the problem....

          The talent tree was big... It ripped the soul of dota ... the stats out.... but nobody won't get this...

          AAAAnyhow: Aside the mapchange, the hud and aaaallll the heroe changes what is new?
          Well...
          The consequences of the previously mentioned changes.
          All these new changes (hud ... heroes ... abilities ... stats ... talent trees ....) mean, that you have to learn a new strategy on every team that you ever learned.
          This is the biggest up and down of this patch btw.
          The up:
          There is going to be a new meta. A new strategy on how to win a game. How to pick heroes ... how to run ... how to jump .. .

          every thing is new .... and that is a PRO!!!

          and:
          All these new changes made the dota 2 into a new game. So many changes at the same time mean that the normal (over 2000 hours played guy) now has no more advantage than the 100 hours guy. And that is bad for the loyals...

          Can I just quickly add a personaly anactode:
          I played 13 years now. Not perfect ... not even good i guess.
          But it was a hobby and made me happy.
          My son would have played this game, because I did. Easy......
          Now... That's gone. I Can't learn all of this, maybe I watch stilll the pro-games, but it's different ...
          It's so fucking different....
          fuck...
          fuck my life..
          fuck 7.00 fuck
          fucky fucky fuck fe fuck fe fefe fefefef fu ck ckufcy
          dota 3 sucks man

          You know what. I could really make a true work out of this ... remodell and remodell and remodell and remodell and remodell untill i break until it's safe. But I dont wanna. It's lost it's worth. It's shit now, shit. shit

          shit

          shiiiiiiiiaaat
          .I cant even
          I am not going to spend another second on this shit. Bye bye forever fuck bye
          maybe not... doesnt matter anyway

          John Cena

            Just read the new 2 posts. I don't know why you would read this "struggle". I don't.
            And the other guy...

            The Medic Guy

              edit:
              TL;DR: he love dota, he hate 7.00, he cri, he whine, he go to sleep. he back to add some love to 7.00, then he add more hate again. he said he is leaving dota, but maybe no.

              You've submitted too many comments recently, please wait a few minutes and try again.
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              Riguma Borusu

                Terrible English and no paragraph structure :'(

                John Cena

                  "TL;DR: he love dota, he hate 7.00, he cri, he whine, he go to sleep. he back to add some love to 7.00, then he add more hate again. he said he is leaving dota, but maybe no."
                  That is in fact wrong. You missed my link and the fact that I assumed that the reader would follow that link and read up on that again.
                  Yes, I expect much of my "follower" ... and yes, my english isn't great I apologize.
                  I am not here to write a perfect journalism paragraphieeee thingyyy.
                  I try to tell my own story and maybe one guy in this world has a good answer for me. That's all i hope for acutally at this point.

                  Pete

                    I believe to say only kids will read this is a false proposition.
                    Most people I know who play dota are 20-25 lol

                    evy

                      @esuna
                      Maybe because you're 20-25? Different region, different age group

                      The Medic Guy

                        whops, just realize that graphic for sub reddit /r/dota2 lol

                        evy

                          Seriously tho, I'll just asume you are 30, isn't it better for you to quit the game entirely? You probably don't have that much free time right now to play on a consistent level right now, let alone learn all the new stuffs
                          And also due to the age factor, it would take you way longer to learn everything all over again on a game you would probably won't even enjoy anymore
                          Moving on seems like the best choice for you imo
                          Also I agree on the community improvement part

                          evy

                            "over 2000 hours played guy) now has no more advantage than the 100 hours guy"
                            Have to disagree
                            Skills like map awareness, targetting objectives, lane controlling, itemization, etc remains the same

                            Pete

                              Yeah; there is no way that this patch puts someone with thousands of hours on par with someone relatively new to Dota. People passively acquire skills they don't even realise by just playing the game longer.

                              Riguma Borusu

                                It's not that you have to re-learn everything, you never knew anything in first place. Otherwise you wouldn't be in normal skill with 47% winrate. Good players (at least good in their own bracket) will always adapt, bad players will just be bad players.

                                The Medic Guy

                                  ^^ agree

                                  Hopeless

                                    7.00 is fantastic. People are silly

                                    The Medic Guy

                                      i don't get it when it was few days before the 7.00 patch, everyone so hype about it, and when the patch out they just like, what is this shit, i miss 6.88 shit, i miss old hud, where are the stats after you are lv 16, monkey king so broken pls remove. i cri.

                                      1-IceTea 🌟

                                        'TL;DR: he love dota, he hate 7.00, he cri, he whine, he go to sleep. he back to add some love to 7.00, then he add more hate again. he said he is leaving dota, but maybe no.'

                                        What redemption said is quite good imo.

                                        U played 10K hours and still NS - it prove the fact that u never want to adapt and u couldn't adapt anythings (not even 6.6/6.7/6.8) .U are stucked in the skill bracket.U never really understand how dota works.

                                        U talk about 'equal fair' go play LoL,as my understanding LoL is more 'fair' , easy,friendly,not that hard compare to DOtA.Dota need more skill then LoL in general.

                                        1-IceTea 🌟

                                          As for talent tree,U know what?I don't remember more then 2 hero tree,just look at them at hero pick section after enemies picking them is good enough (but I so lazy I don't even do that lul)
                                          Do you ever point enemies/teammate hero when you are in game to see their Item and tree build?Do that when you walking home/regening/Ncing is basic.Are you doing this basic since Dota All Star?
                                          So now thinks again - do U ever understand Dota?

                                          Цей коментар був відредагований
                                          TripleSteal-

                                            why do u waste ur time on writing essay about things you dont understand, using language u can barely speak? how's that supposed to be interesting to anyone?

                                            dead

                                              Why did you bother to comment then?

                                              Jacked

                                                lol I'm sure u made some good points. But it was too long didn't read

                                                Jacked

                                                  Don't mind triple shit he is on his period

                                                  Super Speed Snail

                                                    Jacked, you might want to read it.

                                                    At first he is a boring normal whiner.

                                                    Later, he become hillariously frustrated by himself.

                                                    Me myself a 2,8k scrub 29 old soon to be daddy type of gamer. I still play the game witn barbied ninja like AM and lose some game while laughing.

                                                    Its just for fun, it was just like why I go to the movies. Not because I have to, but because I want to.

                                                    fx

                                                      Dota is for fun. Games is for fun. If you dont like it you have the right to uninstall dota. Valve is the creator of the game and we can only complain but not remake the game.