General DiscussionHow to know if you're a shit support?

"I think of myself as better than any other support player on my bracket" << I dont think so

If you play with a high mmr player he will screech at you like an autist

ur support winrate = direct measure of how good u are at support

i got bored of carry and started to spam shaman. i got a 62.5% wr with shaman. am i good support?

Hi Nikki, Just looking at your games on the first page of DB, I can offer the following :

Its great you play support as its always hard to find support players. Your WR is a very nice 55% which is awesome. Clearly your climbing.

your last 20 games or whatever on DB do shed some light on where you can improve.

You seem to be dying alittle more then you should be. Great supports will position themselves extremely well during fights and should have some kills, a few more deaths and a ton of assists.

I'm sure your doing an OK job at warding but ......you aren't playing the HARD pos 5 so it begs the question, why so little farm, your items are super late. Perhaps its related to the many deaths.

Also your item choices , going lens on lion first? You need blink. then force glimmer.

Force Glimmer on all supports is great. KAYA first on CM, no sir. force glimmer, blink ghost, then go hog wild with bkb scepter stuff.
You should be farming better esp on CM since you can jungle effectively.

Anyways, without watching games etc, better positioing and more effective use of farm, better itemization.

Hope that helps.
-bung

Do you stand in lane and click creeps? If so, you're a shit support

"Good" is relative to the bracket you're in.

If you're "shit"(="bad") as a support in your league, you'll lose more than you win (<50% winrate).

i got bored of carry and started to spam shaman. i got a 62.5% wr with shaman. am i good support?

is that a trick question because the answer is obviously yes if u win 60+% of ur games on a decent sample size

Winrate doesnt make you good supp lol
I have 70%wr as Omni still cant win this game
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3591907262
Also if your carry die more often than you that means you are bad supp.ikr

I think of myself as better than any other support player on my bracket

Then why haven't you risen out of your bracket?

nice CM win rate / games played, though :)

So how to know if I'm a good support?

You're a shit support if
You keep hitting the creeps and pushing the lane closer to the offlaner
You keep leeching exp off of your carry knowing well that he can already solo the lane alone
You keep pulling neutrals even if the lane is already in your favor, forcing the enemy creeps on your tower and fucking your carry's last hits.
You dont pull neutrals when the wave is close to the offlaner tower, thus making the lane in their favor.
You don't gank mid and/or tp support to help someone/You keep warding the same spot even though the enemy already dewarded there.

If you are one of the above, then you are a shit support.

Since you can be 2 shotted by anyone, Positioning is also one of the most important.

>Winrate doesnt make you good supp lol
Winrate is the only objective success measure.

If you don't win in the long term, you're not good at your role.
You may have a short-term losestreak, but it shouldn't effect you long-term success.

Everything else is just bullshit and mental gymnastics.
Winrate and numerical parameters, which influence it (GPM, XPM, KDA, etc.) are what show whether you're successful.

Am I a good support now? I don't ruin the creep equilibrium on my pos1 carry I carry tp and gank mid I save my team without dying if I can

Ok I think I'm a good support then

Winrate matters
Duh

Dohhhh

If I mess up creep equilibrium , ward in same spots all the time, don't to rotate, but win all my games. Am I good support?

That is simply not possible.
Given mistakes like that, long term (100+ games) you'd be stuck at 50% wr at best.

Long-term winrate is a reflection of your hero value in the game.
You have high winrate by having high value in one way or another.
You have high value by minimizng errors and maximizing impact (kills, assists, hero damage, tower damage, healing, cc, net worth, healing, buyback status, vision control, etc.)

If you play a hero/role for lots of games (100 is enough of a sample size, I think) and you're running 40-50% winrate with it, you're shit at it and doing something very wrong, period. You're not bringing enough value.

Good (at their respective ranked bracket) supports/carries/offlaners/midlaner/roamers/whatever win more games than they lose, because they either make less mistakes, have more impact or both on average in relative terms.
Bad (at their respective ranked bracket) supports/carries/offlaners/midlaner/roamers/whatever lose more games than they win, because they either make more mistakes, have less impact or both on average in relative terms.

I have 70%wr as Omni still cant win this game
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3591907262
Also if your carry die more often than you that means you are bad supp.ikr

this
That is a single individual game. If you're better than average support at your bracket (good), that one game doesn't matter, for you'll play 20 more games and win more than you lose.

Doing those things that I mentioned doesn't necessarily make you a good support, What I'm saying is that those are the fundamentals of being a support player. Buying all the wards/Courier doesn't necessarily make you a support.

Messing up the equilibrium, can have no consequences on a lower skill tier as most players there don't take advantage of it. But on a high skill tiered games, Every little thing matters.

1) As a safelane carry playing mostly on one hero this patch I can say that for me bad supports are people who just afk on lane.
I don't need another player just stealing my exp. Bad support is someone who never leaves safelane and thinks he/she does impact.

2) Also, messing up with single pulls when your carry doesnt push triggers me so much. A lot of people do a single pull and they think WOW!!! I pulled creeps!!! I must be good. They don't even understand what they've done.

3) Not harassing enemy offlaner. Offlaners get exp and put pressure on safelane pos1 players.

4) Picking bad support heroes like Silencer is almost always autolose.

5) No tps to punish enemy team.

6) Ancient stacks/stacks for mid lane.

When you give your safelane carry 2 levels advantage over enemy offlaner you can leave the lane and roam.

Also as some people stated above low farm on supports. I rarely play pos5; however, being a support doesn't mean you don't need to farm.

Bad supports take more and do less.
Nuff said.

I have decent support winrates in party ranked and unranked/solo unranked which is about 70%winrate on most supports
Once im supporting in solo ranked its a 30% winrate which is why i decided to play offlane in solo ranked...
Does that make me a part time good support player?

good "get carried" player

Aren't all support players good get carried players
Like they all eventually get carried but their job is to make it easier to get carried
The actions u perform to enable ur carry to carry you and ur efficiency at performing them define how good you are of a support

if u win - it is because of your carry, if you lose - it is because of your support

"If you play with a high mmr player he will screech at you like an autist"
this is accurate. even if you play well they will do the same though.

This is my mid players when i gank
tho in that clip I could wait for him to walk down and i could at least hit him 3 times after that

Hey, if i was a better support I also was on a higher bracket. Compared to higher bracket supports I'm worse, compared to lower I'm better

Isn't that the whole point of the ranking?

to make your carry approve of you, you cannot do the standard stuff. most likely u will piss him off somehow. to surprise him, you need to be there when he is least expecting. like when he is suddenly ganked, and he thinks. Oh I fucked up, im dead. and suddenly 3 man ravage as lion, out of no where. he thinks, fuck where did my support come from?

thats the kinda the shit that gets a carry player hard. a magician

This is too broad of a question tbh. There is a lot a support can do right, and a lot they can do wrong

From poaition 1 2 3 to 4 and 5 now.. If u play support make sure u get the space for your carry to farm.. "Gank and Pull" dont farm in lanes just harras and deny.. Provide what your carr required.. And always tp before clash occur when u read maps.. Vission and dewarding is important. Smoke gank and dust when required "if needed to kill a hero significantly the main carry". Just my opinion peace out

In my opinion a good support should also be a good leader.
I mean you can do everything right, but if you can't lead your team your winrate won't go that hight.

@giren 100% right.. U should know every role purpose and aiming.. There are times also when i play offlaner.. And my hard carry cant farm well.. And support is not so effective.. As an offlaner u have to get more the attention even u get feed but the result should recover in return.. If u know what i mean.. Juat example..

I learned nothing new

You're a shit support if you aren't compulsively checking the minimap every 2 seconds.

I learned nothing new

MMR and Badges along with winrate in current bracket show how good you are. Silly question.

Best place to learn is from watching Diving Ranked games... watching the support players there, and asking yourself "why is this guy doing that." When you get to the point that you can predict what that support player will do next, that means you starting to think like a 6k MMR+ player. ~Advice compliments of Cookie

Hard to just look at your match history and give you any helpful advice outside of what Bung said.

Make your retards happy.

I don't think there are advanced concepts that u can just learn and jump 500 mmr if you're already 4k. Improving is just about efficiency and how you prioritise your decisions. Like which lane to prioritise. When to just pull instead of try to contest offlaner, etc.

Support sucks

Good support meaning never let ward/sentries afk. You know what I mean, take map control for your team, use defensive ward first. If first ward you trying to put offensive, you are noob.

"If you play with a high mmr player he will screech at you like an autist"
so the lesson is "dont play supp" ? :D

I played with 5k players for at least 10 games (only 2 5ks) but they did not screech at me like an autist