OD's short range doesnt allow him to be a glass cannon. he will always be in the middle of a fight, like razor. you get mobility on the hero so that you can survive and do damage, it allows for both. but sanity's eclipse talent is SUPER bad. it will barely add like 200-300 damage to a 160 second cooldown spell. attack speed and hp is generally okay on both sides, but i think attack speed is better because you dont buy attack speed items on this hero till much later into the game.
Those are good points.
The way I see the hero played is u are not a glass Canon in the sense like drow or sniper. But u are always in the corner of a fight somewhere with someone who's out of position from his team.
Of course there are some games where u have to be in the middle of shit and in those games u go bkb. I'm still 50-50 on survivability. But I think if u just went damage its totally fine. I don't think he is a "tank" in the sense he needs to be right in the middle without dying, like spec or dusa. He has a short window to be in the middle of fights so u still want to do dmg fast and use ur move speed and items and abilities to "survive".
Didn't do the math on sanity eclipse talent, so don't know how dog shit it is. But stats show it is about even with str.
This question is more a conceptual one on how the hero should be played.
yes, you DONT want to be in the middle, but you will have to be for the most part. Od is not tinker. tinker can afford to skip all survivability items and just get full damage because if he gets caught, he is dead anyway. but od is not. he is already fairly tanky for an INT hero, so building to make it better is not a bad approach. OD is like dp/lesh, you build to be survivable/mobile because it is what allows you to do damage without dying. thats why he is super good with omniknight. if you are not under fear of dying, you can do a lot more with the hero.
od is not a glass cannon at all. it depend on the game scenario what you prioritise more, but in general the " noob" your talking have a much better understanting than you about OD.
Same old fool jacked , you always put yourself in deep shit when you have a discus with someone else. the way you start the conversation by insulting the other guy that he is " noob" , " retarded " , cause of the way he thinks is wrong and your right.
than after you get confirmed wrong and he right you swallow the shit that you did yourself and move on shame . lul.
with od, it's really good to have teammates who soak up damage while you hit people
if you find yourself in the middle of the enemy team, you're just going to feed
Lmao mafoso. Just shut up. Jesus. Your like the annoying little Brother who doesn't get shit and just pesters everyone. It's a legit friendly discussion I have with a Friend.
I have 4 games on OD so I don't claim to know the hero. He has like 20 but I have a much better wr (ROfl)
I have 4 games on OD so I don't claim to know the hero. He has like 20 but I have a much better wr (ROfl)that is so retarded.
im sure you have not been confirmed yet by yourself. there are some things that are almost imposible in this life. one of them is to convinc a fool that he is wrong.
For some reason, OD works so much better for me in a party game. More so than other heroes. I think its because he requires more coordination with his lack of hard lockdown and the fact the way he deals his damage. It sort of requires a team in the midgame. I think this proves your point that he is a glass cannon and can outdamage anybody, but if they get to you you only have one astral and maybe blink pike, and you sort of need those to do your thing too. You only need to click on people and you build towards that because thats where his damage comes from. After that I guess you need to not die in the middle of those fights, so I guess find a balance because you can’t do your damage if you’re dead
u cant never get hit as od, u have to stand there and hit people with ur tiny range and shitty animation
even with bkb ur gonna catch some spell eventually and if u went glass cannon build (treads kaya blink sheep or sth idk lol) u will die like a retard
od really good against people who frontline and can get hit a bunch, but have no catch
so its nice playing him against abddon, underlord etc because these heroes have no way to stop u from slapping them and their teams less likely to be in range to stun you
I would say it's a mix, you want to to be tanky so you don't just get shredded but you also aren't looking to soak up damage. At the same time you can't just build all tanky because you do need to deal damage. Mostly I think you get mobility, survivability, and attack speed.
treads blink pike hex shivas bkb is 6 slots unfortunately
u can do things with ur backpack (swap bkb out for skadi, backpack silver edge) but for the most part ur limited to that set of items and maybe shadow blade or atos
HAhaha Jesus this guy. Do I have to explain everything to u because it goes over your head ?
It's like u just have such a hard on to tell me I'm wrong every time (like with behaviour score) that u don't seem to understand my irony use. Oh well. Idiots will be idiots.
Back on topic.
OD doesn't use items to deal damage. So in that sense he isn't like sniper, who could just build Plain damage items for example. An OD with mjol daed rapier would be a bit silly.
Instead, he uses his abilities and core mobility items (blink pike) to "survive" and deal more damage in fights. THats not to say that just because he is in the thick of fights that he isn't a glass Canon. Instead he just needs a window and a means to deal large amount of burst damage - in the middle of a fight or not.
Think of a hero like TA with a similar playstyle. Sometimes u need bkb as a well so u can jump in and do dmg. And "survive" I Guess. But u don't build survivability in the sense that ud choose raw Hp over damage. Like u don't build heart or skadi on ta. Nor would u on OD. Maybe a better analogy is u wouldn't build something like bloodstone for more raw hp (ok that's still a bad analogy).
You go Armour (shivas). Or else it's just increasing ur ability to deal more dmg (bkb hex).
It's not that he doesn't need to survive or build survivability (like a tinker doesn't need to). But he uses other means to survive.
Given raw hp or dmg, why wouldnt u just go dmg?
Thoughts?
It's hard to compare all the item
Choices because there are few choices for int carries and all have a mix of survivability that you'd obviously get those if u needed it (like shivas with the int, and atos with the stats)
because he powers up the longer hes not dead, why would you take 50 damage over 500 hp (example talent) if after 6 hits you already hit for more than 50 bonus damage extra with half as pure, as long as u live?
Simply because the sanity talent is crap? I can understand that.
Say it was better u would definitely go dmg. Because OD is a hero that prefers dmg over extra hp? I dono. I'm not convinced on hp
Yea that makes sense.
so it depends on whether OD is more reliably a damage-over-time hero that should survive fights, or
A hero that need to burst ppl since fights are never gonna last that Long anyway. I don't have enough experience with the hero so I don't know, so i Guess JD is probably right.
It depends on the game I think. Depends on your front line and depends on their mobility. In my most recent OD game... I went all damage like you are saying because we were stomping them and they had no way of initiating... also I was against a timber and a morphling who I needed to burst down quickly. I'm with you in that the ideal game you talent for damage and rely on blink, pike, and prison to keep yourself alive but that doesn't always happen.
As a general principle though, I think OD and glass cannon should never be used in the same sentence. He's the opposite. The longer he's in the fight... the stronger he gets. If there is any chance they can burst or lock you down... build HP. He literally hits harder with every hit. Glass cannon describes a hero that needs to insta kill so they don't care about HP. A full agi shotgun morph is the perfect example of that.
Not trying to be picky about words... but I'm struggling to find a good comparison. His strength (like timber and slark) is that the longer the fight goes the stronger he is. If there's a drawn out, 60 second long fight and OD survives you better run away from him.
He's like Rocky... better take him out early because in the later rounds you won't beat him.
So if there's any chance you need extra mobility or HP... get it... staying alive in the fight builds the damage you need. Only in certain scenarios (like my last game I was describing) do you go all out for damage.
And at level 20 (which I didnt get in last game... we won in 27 mins) I'll get the STR 99 percent of the time... in that game I'm describing though I'd probably get the sanity's eclipse simply because it would allow me to blow up that morph if I ever found him farming with high agi morph.
I guess I'll say my 2 cents is that the person you were arguing with is normally correct, however there are a few cases where your mentality is correct. Hope I'm not contradicting myself.
When a defensive level 20 talent has higher win rate than the offensive, as slight as it can be, you know that the defensive talent is better. It could have 1% less win rate you still would know it's better.
I think it's because the +2 sanity eclipse multiplier is dogshit. Attack speed is core too because Od doesn't get much attack speed. And yea pike blink into bkb/ shivas / hex is pretty much core. Going defensive items like hood would lose you the game because it's not as strong as the other core items most of the time.
+2 sanity multiplier is only 20% more damage for one ability that's on a nearly 3 minute cooldown. It won't even make a difference most of the times. People just like getting ability-specific talents more because they sound better and more interesting than just flat attribute bonuses, but +2 multiplier is just so miniscule.
idk where all these JACKED haters are coming from man
i bet u guys wouldnt say this shit to him at lan, ________________________
eddie 10 hours ago
Jacked shit get a life or some friends cool story bro
LUL. jacked talking about OD with his imaginary friend . XDDD
damn how did i fall for that . lul
bearcat0611 9 hours ago
make one stupid argument and the internent will hate you forever.
if your talking about jacked than your missing some zeros bra . XD
if you want to survive an initiation just get an aeon disk,you can up your int too when disk animation occurs.
^please don't ty
My build is treads Pike blink bkb hex/shiva's/ac
I throw in atos against ur storms or morphs, sb is situationally good, and even hood isnt that bad if ur against huge magic dmg. I take the attack speed at 10, because ur fairly tanky at that stage with just treads 2 null and wand forcestaff or Midas, and u don't have good attack speed that early. Hp over sanities, because u already explode people, u only require staying alive to steal more int to deal your dmg.
The only hater I have is mashitso. Even SLQ I have come to love. I'm just weary of that normal skill 40% conspiracy shithead though because he makes no sense most of the time and is unfunny
Well how can we assume the items we build without being in the right situation? From all those OD games I played the one thing I understand is that OD is a squishy hero, if he ever gets out of position he will die pretty fast, say an axe initiating on u with blade mail and your orb is in auto cast u will die almost instantly. According to the situation we will have to change the build, I don't think I've to tell you that
^If I'm not wrong you can turn off autocast even if you got taunted. Give it a shot and it might save you from some certain deaths.
Edit: Tested in demo, positive that you can turn off auto cast during berserker's call.
When a defensive [...] talent has higher win rate than the offensive, as slight as it can be, you know that the defensive talent is better. It could have 1% less win rate you still would know it's better.
checkmate atheists
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He thinks OD should build to survive.
We were watching Apoo's game and It started off with talent choices. 200hp 40 movt speed and 20 str.
I agree on movement speed. But hear me why I think u go Attack speed and sanity eclipse.
Because OD is a glass Canon in my books. U have blink pike Astral and movt speed as kiting tools. U just need to deal damage and do it quickly in fights.
The noob fx says that u hVe to "survive their initiation". And 20 Str is like 400 hp (I dono the math). I'll admit that it sounds good at first. But late game 400 hp isn't so good. Usually u build Armour to survive like shivas. 20 str does have a marginally better winrate. But it's so marginal.
I'd say it's 50-50 based on how u play the hero. Surviving is important, i Guess. U survive and do more dmg
Over time.
Or do u follow my idea that he is a glass Canon. Get more Attack speed, do more dmg in short window, burst? Fuck survivability?