please stop talking about getting bullied when you are making accounts over and over for your life to prove your friends who bullied you on your games you are better and u are not the problem. please stop this and respect yourself for first time in your life. this is just not making any sense. nobody is bullying you. you are asking others to shit on your face.
ROFL, it doesnt mean im just good at it on internet, it shows i can even dig your soul from texts you write monkey.
am i ruining everybody life here by telling them just stick to one account and get better or get over it and play for fun?? HELLO? are u that miserable and childish which u get sad if somebody tell u the reality which u suck in this game?? go cry for gaben then why hurting your feelings by giving you crusader medal in first place.
you should be good at everything?? you think every body is your mom in this world?? am i supposed to encourage my little kid here and say dont give up and make new account? ROFL!
i think someone who are fighting with everybody in his brain and start cutting their sentences to reach his desire outcome is really mentally ill and need to visit a doctor :)
Thought so. No new comments or intelligent arguments from you.
I began playing 2 years and a half ago, had herald 2. Climbed all the way up to archon 3 but fell back down to crusader 1 by playing with my friends. As from there, every solo game of mine is infested by midorfeeders, throwers, people who ward our own NC and I can go on. I find it unfair that I have to struggle with this in order to try and climb on my main account, winning 10 and losing 12, playing 3vs7 almost everyday. The mmr system is not adjusted to what my learning curve has proven to be.
Anyways, I'll be intelligent and re-take the original query for my biggest curiosity of why is there so much hate here. You say we and all the people who makes new accounts to "escape" their mmr are ruining the game. Finally you made some explanation which is all you needed to do instead of just throwing words of hate.
Can you explain why our actions affect the game's economy and drives the playerbase down? Provide numbers, facts, real articles on this. Don't mention that one of Valve's priority is to unable smurfs, because that's already known. Your own impression and information will do just fine, maybe, as you're a high ranked player and you must know things, but I'd like sources or information too if possible.
Thought so. No new comments or intelligent arguments from you.
Please use quotes to address specific people that you are replying to, otherwise you just look like you are speaking aimlessly at people.
I began playing 2 years and a half ago, had herald 2. Climbed all the way up to archon 3 but fell back down to crusader 1 by playing with my friends.
I presume this was a calibration that you made immediately when you began playing, however you can not climb your solo mmr by playing with friends so this simply doesnt make sense. You wont lose solo mmr by playing with friends, sure you medal likely decreased if you calibrated your party mmr since I imagine this would have been very low to begin with, but this does not effect your solo games.
As from there, every solo game of mine is infested by midorfeeders, throwers, people who ward our own NC and I can go on. I find it unfair that I have to struggle with this in order to try and climb on my main account, winning 10 and losing 12, playing 3vs7 almost everyday. The mmr system is not adjusted to what my learning curve has proven to be.
Every bracket you will ever play in will be infested by these people that you talk about. There is no escaping them, I have played games with Divine-Immortal average where teammates and enemies alike have been toxic feeders. If you are incapable of solo carrying a team of imbeciles in Crusader games then you simply do not stand a chance in higher brackets unless you learn how to play the game. If you cant beat crusaders, you will not fit in anywhere in the higher brackets and you will not be able to sustain your mmr. This is a fact.
Anyways, I'll be intelligent and re-take the original query for my biggest curiosity of why is there so much hate here. You say we and all the people who makes new accounts to "escape" their mmr are ruining the game. Finally you made some explanation which is all you needed to do instead of just throwing words of hate.
There is hate here because this forum is a cesspool of people who are only interested in fake smurf calibration and what their mmr will be from it. Nobody is interested in your activities, especially when they are ridiculous as the ones in this thread.
Can you explain why our actions affect the game's economy and drives the playerbase down? Provide numbers, facts, real articles on this. Don't mention that one of Valve's priority is to unable smurfs, because that's already known. Your own impression and information will do just fine, maybe, as you're a high ranked player and you must know things, but I'd like sources or information too if possible.
No evidence is needed to back up this claim, it is very common knowledge which can be seen not only by the declining playerbase numbers but also the experience of myself, my friends, and the majority of the older community of this game. I am not a high ranked player either so do not refer to me like that, I am a 3k trench player like a lot of other people here. Smurfs ruin this game for new players and experienced players alike, players under-calibrate their mmrs purposefully to kick the shit out of low skill players because it brings them enjoyment, this deters new and low skill players from investing time and energy into the game and becoming better. In the Archon-Legend-Ancient games which I predominantly play, there will often be smurf accounts which belong to high skill players and boosters who dominate the games and ruin the experience for others. At the highest level, people make smurf accounts and calibrate them at Divine and Immortal, and then sell these accounts to low skill players such as the one that made this thread who believe they are a good player and are being held back by feeders and poor teammates. These players then proceed to ruin games for other people because they are complete trash and force their team to play a 4v6. Rampant smurfing has poisoned this game at every level by hiding the nature of your opponents and providing unnecessary handicaps to your team, or an unnecessary advantage to the other, they make the game less skill based and more luck based as to who is going to get the booster on their team and who is going to get the Crusader imbecile that inflated their calibration or bought an account. People are not interested in playing a game like that, I can not think of any other ranked multiplayer game which suffers from the troublesome matchmaking problems Dota does. People do not want to play a skill based team game when there is so much luck as to who you are going to have assigned to your team, people want games to be fair and balanced and to be matched with opponents of their skill level who have played for some time on that account to match their skill level, thus ensuring the integrity of the game and a fair balance across both teams, anything else is just random rng and defeats the purpose of grinding to be better.
buddy as a guy with crusader 1 medal i think you are not supposed to talk about intelligence. if you think you are, just go search "IQ test" and get an estimation about your place among others.
the whole fucking point of gaining mmr in solo ranked is winning hard games, everybody can win easy games. if you cant you are not deserved to be higher mmr. if u be 4k bad players are still there. if u be 5k bad players are there. if u be 6k 7k its still the same. of course a 5k bad player is not as bad as 2k one at all. but you are competing with other 5ks not 2ks, if u get the bad 5k player in your team you are in disadvantage and for gaining mmr in this bracket u need to win this hard game simply because every body can win easy games!!! its still the same rule!
bad draft, meeting a smurf, having ruiners, etc its all the part of a hard game. you should push ur limits and try to win this games. if you cant, your not supposed to be higher mmr cause mmr is relative and only ppl who can win those games gaining it!
and for the rest of your stupid speech i never claimed that. i just said he is not a real anshit player and we will see what will happen in the next 200 games, and as u can see the guy lost 2 medal and started to queue with guardians. why?? to fool the system again and get easier games. i just opened mulli profile in dota, a guy who play party games recently. https://www.dotabuff.com/players/101279405 check it yourself
5 recent ranked games summary:
1. 1 achon 3 guardian 1 herald against 3 crusader 1 guardian 1 herald :S
2. 2 archon 3 legend against 2 archon 2 legend and a fucking anshit 5 how ridiculous is that? anshit 5 huskar midlane against archon 4 troll , do u see any fairness or competition in this game? yikes
3. oh no no no, 4 legend 1 archon against 1 divine 1, 1 anshit 5, 1 legend 1 archon and a crusader. how stupid this is?? in any scenario do you think that crusader 1 deserves his gain/loss mmr of this match? do you think he has any impact in this game?
4. finally a balance game. wow good job gaben
5. legend 1 midlaner against crusader 5, guess who got stomped :))
so yeah tldr; a guy who abused calibration system to get anshit, now abuses retarded party matchmaking on low mmr games to get easy opponents and keep up with winning. wonderful!
I find it unfair that I have to struggle with this in order to try and climb on my main account, winning 10 and losing 12, playing 3vs7 almost everyday. The mmr system is not adjusted to what my learning curve has proven to be.
It's strange to call something unfair when ALL players who have to enter at the bottom of the ladder have to go through the same shitshow of throwers and tilters. Surely being put through the same process as everyone else is the precise definition of "fair"?
Not to mention there are other fallacies in this quote. The whole idea of winning 10 and losing 12 on your main, and blaming it on the mmr bracket that you're in, whatever trench you may think you are in, is laughable. If you cannot generate a positive win ratio over the course of a large sample size of games, the only person who you should look at is yourself. Not the tilters, not the throwers, not your idiot cores or your idiot supports. Not only because you can only really control yourself so you should look inwards for improvement, but also because we know that someone who is head and shoulders above a bracket can climb out of it easily via solo carrying, by taking over a game whilst playing ANY role.
Now you might say, "But I'm a support player, I don't have the farm to take over a game". However, Speed made a very good guide on how you can take over a game from pos five, simply by pushing the lane, stack pulling, and crushing them out with level advantage. He makes sure that he's always scaling, and gets multiple good ganks off because he's overfarmed for his role, and has the freedom to roam to other lanes (which cores can't do as easily), and just crushes the game in sub 20 minutes. In fact, if you're significantly better than your opponents, you can win the game solo as a support more easily than a carry can, because your timing as a support is much earlier than the cores.
The other fallacy in your quote is that there are ruiners all the time in your bracket. What, do you think there are no game ruiners, mid feeders and generally toxic players in higher mmrs? Do you think of high mmr 10k behaviour score games as flame free chillax games where everyone is ultra PMA? Well, I am here to tell you, even 10k behaviour score 5k games can absolutely get fully tilty. Watch enough high mmr streams and you realise that human psychology is the same whether you're 2k or 5k or 7k. There are egos, there's Dunning Kruger, there's ragers. There's also the fallacy of complaining about ragers and throwers on your team. If you yourself are not a rage/thrower, you have a smaller chance of having a rage/thrower on your team than the enemy team. You think there aren't rager/throwers on the enemy team? If only you could see their team chat, then you'd realise that rager/throwers basically settle into a 50-50 pattern over a large sample size.
My best advice for solo queue is: focus criticism only on yourself and what you can do better, mute flamers and tilters, and try to salve the egos of your cores whilst tilting their cores. It's basically free mmr.
re-take the original query for my biggest curiosity of why is there so much hate here
Warning: TL;DR: just go to the conclusion at the end.
I don't see the need for any direct hostility towards people who create alt accounts/smurfs. The behaviour is actually rampant, but there are implications of such an explosion of smurfs that I'll explore further later. But if you try to see it from the usual dotabuff user, you may realise that nearly half of the threads are basically 50 game smurfs posting GUESS MY MMR CALIBRATION and it basically becomes the same shitshow thread on repeat.
The behaviour being criticised isn't the making of an alt account. Most people have one. Hell, I even had one that became my main because I thought I had MMR stagnation in a 4k account and got my alt calibrated at 4.5k, which became my main until TI ranked allowed me to up my main to 5.4k.
The behaviour that IS being criticised is when some players, dissatisfied with their mmr on their main, create multiple new accounts in order to calibrate higher than their previous calibration. Since calibration is fundamentally a small sample size (only 10 games), if you get really lucky you may just get 10 ez games and calibrate higher than where you should be. This is what parma described as "calibration lottery", and if you've simply calibrated 10 times to get where you wanted to be, holding up X badge as an achievement seems cheap to the entire rest of the dota population that grinded their medal. I'm not claiming that this applies to you directly: for all I know this is your first alt account and you don't spam smurfs. But those who are perceived to be smurf spammers appear to normal players to be deluded, thinking they are much better than their bracket when in fact their stats reveal that they are really not as good as they claim to be.
Can you explain why our actions affect the game's economy and drives the playerbase down?
If you do end up at a higher mmr than you should be, every game that you end up losing on your way to your mmr plateau, could be seen as griefing your team. During these games, you're basically the same as a boosted account, and very frustrating to play with.
Also, mmr economies can be seen very similarly to money economies, since fundamentally they are about trading a finite resource (money vs mmr). This is an important analogy. Unless there's smurf detection, every game in dota trades some mmr between the winning and losing teams, and hence dota can be described as a zero sum game: the mmr loss is equal to the mmr gain, so each game is mmr neutral from an mmr economic perspective.
In money economies, inflation is largely driven by printing more money, and in mmr economies, mmr inflation is largely driven by creating new accounts, since every new account injects mmr into the mmr total of the economy. A small amount of mmr inflation can be healthy. Following the analogy, small inflation causes people to trust the system and readily exchange their mmr, since mmr means something. However, imagine if every player in the game decided to make a smurf, doubling the amount of mmr in the system. Then the top mmr in the game would probably have 15k mmr, since mmr always flows from weaker players to the strongest players over time. MMR inflation can be readily seen by the way that top players start the season at 8k, now Arteezy is 10k. The main reason for this is the rampant population of smurfs being created. There's a reason that in Chess, players who become inactive are removed from the MMR system, because this is a way of bleeding the amount of mmr from the economy, and as a result the top mmr in chess is only 2862, second place is 2842, third place is 2805. (Gaps in mmr are always the biggest at the very top of the table).
If there are too many random smurfs in the game, game quality is reduced, because some games will be griefed by boosted accounts, and some games will be griefed by smurfs who are better than the game. Especially if they are smurfs playing above their bracket, they are simply accounts that will transfer mmr from lower legit players to the best players, inflating the top mmrs to 10k and beyond, meaning 4k mmr at the beginning of the season is more akin to 4.5k mid season and 5k end of season. Mmr inflation literally means each mmr point is worth less.
If you happen to have multiple accounts, you are making the game worse for everyone, whether it's because you're playing above or below your bracket, because mmr inflation and smurfs reduce trust in the mmr system.
TL; DR:
If you really want to climb, it's really not that difficult to climb out of the trench. The only thing required is a positive winrate.
To have a positive winrate, make sure you focus on yourself and your own play. Write off any tilter thrower games as outliers, and simply focus on winning more than you lose. The mmr system will always allow you to climb if you win more than you lose.
Blaming everything else other than yourself is a weak mentality that will only hold you abck.
this is a friend's account that literally started at 900 mmr and never played a moba before. Just played with better players, listened to better players, watched replays and streams and videos, and is now div 4 in 3000 games.
I've been applying these ideas in my own games, at 5.6k, and crushing lanes with my duoqueue partner. Also, we've managed to beat strong immortal lanes in our 5 stack games (like 1k mmr average above us), simply by abusing pushing the wave+ stack pulls. Not that I mean we will win every time, only that the ideas laid out in the video will apply all the way from 0 mmr to the highest levels of play.
Also, brushing up on your laning and early game rotations will instantly gain you hundreds if not a thousand mmr at that bracket, simply because if you're that much better at laning you will be able to get kills and farm and xp and become a pos 3 from pos 5, and then if you gank the map accordingly you can easily solo win games.
If you end up winning your lanes and become a fourth core in the majority of your games, I promise you you will accelerate out of your perceived trench in no time.
P.S. If you're concerned that this will take a long grind, know that if you improve quickly enough, you can actually be smurf detected on your main, like a friend of mine who zoomed from rank 1500 immortal to rank 800 in a few days. If you are really better than your bracket and play consistently better than your bracket, you can earn +100 for a win whilst only losing -20 if you lose... so as always, focus on yourself as much as possible. Player skill goes all the way up to 10k right now, there's always more that you can do in your games, just like there is always more that I can do in mine.
He removed me from his friends list. I feel bad for his two guardian friends he played with to get 2k avg games as he couldn't carry them and they just ended up losing their mmr too.
I shuld apologize to tyski
But not to do you kowerta
And congratulations on ur immortal rank
Just better attitude towards people
Definitely I will change my words for u
Tyski I removed all of my friends as things r not getting working out.
The account has hardly 3 people in it
In which 1 of them is my own account
U have done lots of good for me
I'm extremely sorry and by unfriending u
I'm the loser because I couldn't see ur games or replays.
The way u play wd n cm it's absolutely amazing.
I'm able to say one thing I went to legend 4 now
And then I went back to my old archon 1 account where I have all my arcana n immortals etc.
I am easily able to win.
This anshit 2 account helped me learn few things and ur advises tyski has improved me alot for pos1.
why would u even apologize to me? u think i give a shit what a fucking donkey like you thinks about me? seriously?
u should apologize for being an animal who waste others time in this thread, and suggesting making new accounts to other ppl in other threads.
you should go say sry to every one of ppl who lost mmr cause u cant accept reality which u are not good in this game.
so this guy kabir made a smurf and got ranked too high now he is losing then he made another smurf let some booster play on it and then took it again and sucks still waht a fucking wonder. also he pretends this acc was another person. conclusion this shit is pathetic.
I'm able to say one thing I went to legend 4 now
And then I went back to my old archon 1 account where I have all my arcana n immortals etc.
I am easily able to win.
This anshit 2 account helped me learn few things and ur advises tyski has improved me alot for pos1.
You arent legend 4 you fucking clown haha, you are a deluded archon AT BEST.
You have a shit winrate, you get your friend to play on your account, you disable match data cause you are trash and want to conceal when your friend wins and when you lose and you cant even win when you stack with Guardians. What the fuck did you think? We wouldnt notice how shit you are? Either you are a completely delusional clown or you are secretly a master of trolling, but I really doubt that.
Stay on your shitty crusader main and climb on your own, no boosters, no stacks, then come here and give us an update when you reach Legend on that account you utter autist.
A lot of objections in the comment above.
Calm down parma, as a former deluded person (doubt u changed tho) u need to be more patient with this guy and understand him better than us!
Actually winning with 2 guardians is more difficult than on solo q. They wont carry you if you have a bad day.
But the post about how sorry Kabir is to delete Tyski from his friends list is hilarious. Tyski you were just a burden in his delusional creation of himself.
Actually winning with 2 guardians is more difficult than on solo q.
if u just read what i said before about partying with low ranks you wont came up with this. its not about getting carried. party games are retarded, how a game with a anshit 5 in one side and archons on the other is balanced? how its fair to say the guardian player who got carried by anshit one deserve that mmr. isnt is just another version of smurfing???
Its not entirely true. You have 2 guardians, Anshit and 2 legends while whole enemy team can be well balanced Legend team what makes you responsible for carring them. Its not that easy for Anshit who is not experienced enough in actually carring the game.
It can also be the other way as you mentionee which would be true as well. Imo party queue system was better. Now its more of a lottery.
yeah, thats right, if u be an anshit player like asylum who lost his 4th game on herald as a booster it can be considered as a balance game. your anshit medal is fake anyway.
but to me being X medal means you are able to stomp X-1k mmr medal like an ez on your own. so its not going to be other way in my opinion if you really be that X medal. specially in games i mentioned they are matching archon midlane agaisnt anshit 5!!! it cant be other way tbh. its just like smurfing. like you can see yourself, kabir as a legend 5 player laned against guardians crusaders most of his games!!
well this thread has aged well. Someone made such a retarded thread that i have to side with Kowareta. If ur a 3k player u will stomp 1k if ur a 4k player u will stomp 2k if ur a 5k player u will stomp 3k. Theres no such thing as not being able to climb out of trench because of teammates. i could create a new account and have 90% winrate till i hit ancient regardless of teammates. @kabir if you are a real ancient you would be stomping archons thats just how mmr works. if u cant pass archon in you main account and u think ur an ancient player then goodsir u are deluded and in denial. dont create new account and ruin actual ancient players game with your incapability to pass archon.
ps. after all that talk about proving yourself at least be manly enough to keep your new account public, losing 4 straight then going private just proves even more how much in denial you are.
that isnt 100% true. I am divine now but my hardest games were when i was between legend 3 to ancient 1. Yes you do climb but that is due to some lucky win spree that pushes you out of a hell. There are certain levels where it is much easier and certain levels where it is much harder. Here is a great example. https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/5332997321 I with with peers who knows what they are doing and after a duel win we can actually get a roshan or tower we finish the game before we can die and give up spree or something. When I was in legend bracket I would hit all my item timings much faster. There were games where I even got dagger blademail treads before 14 mins. But we would lose cuz no one would play around me, no one provides the vision I need to get good jumps. They farm during allies power spikes and since his ally did not get anything during his power spike all future fights are weaker. You can talk about playing better urself and 5v1ing but that isnt dota.
https://prnt.sc/rssyib,https://prnt.sc/rsro59 Here is how you do it Kabir. 1 week, Archon 2 - Anshit 1. No new accounts, no party, just git gud, and play game. If I didn't play all them damn sniper pos 4 games, and fast queue farms It would be 100% win rate.
@NineO_OSix i understand what u mean, im a support player and the hardest for me to get out of was low 5k, once i hit 5.5 i quickly made it to 6k. this is normal because there are certain synergies that cannot be made with player in the 4k bracket. however were talking about crusader vs ancient, in this case regardless of team synergy u shud be able to carry your team if your an ancient playing vs crusader. theres a HUGE difference between crusader and ancient in terms of mechanical skill.
also another reason would be you have actually improved massively since then, for you hardest to get out of was legend to ancient, this probably means ur a team player and rely on a level of understanding in dota. but gradually you would have become better at dota as well. my point is that you said legend 3 to anc 1 was hardest to pass, but if u made a legend 3 account right now would it take u that long to hit ancient 1 now that your a divine 1 player? my guess is absolutely not.
@NineO_OSix
thats a fact man, its how everything works. if u get your MS degree and struggling in solving BS problems it means you just cheated to get your degree. its so fucking simple!!!
why i feel my 7k ranked matches 5k mmr mirana pos 4 is an animal who cant land stun even tho the heroes getting slowed by boar? why i feel my 9k ranked games es player cant fissure properly without blocking us and let enemy escape?? 5k mmr sucks? NO i had very good players too, they cheated to be 5k, they just increased their play time, they just spammed broken heroes.
look at asylum, i flamed him a lot for his winrate and play time, he got divine 1, you saw what happened when he tried to boost a herald account , right?
look at yourself, why the fuck a guy who has 60% winrate on clinkz has 49% overall winrate in ranked games??? cause you are cheating. u dont understand dota, u dont understand clinkz. u just can win in a times the hero getting buffed and is broken like crazy.
if u had understanding of the game like a real X mmr that you are, you could manage to win with other heroes just like your clinkz.
Lol clinkz at the lowest win rate it ever been. 46% win rate. Hardly broken and not even good. I just like the hero. Why dont you name a list of 5 heroes and i play those nothing would change. I love how you keep bring up my over all win rate when about 90% of them are like played 6 years ago and i had gaps of years where i quit. If you start from 2020 where I actually started to play seriously it is respectable.
yeah, your right about it, my bad.
but my point is still there, if u have 68% winrate on 4k mmr with your clinkz, you will definitely will manage to have +90% on 2k and +75% on 3k. yeah i cant do much in lane when i play beast solo against 2 or my pos 4 sucks ass. but when i tried it on 2k mmr lower; it doesnt matter any more. i could won that lane solo on my own without any help cause i know what im doing.
the only sad posters here are the one screeching over someone else recalibration
also what's funny with dota players is that when you get lose streak and fall off of your bracket it's 100% your fault
but if you manage to climb it's because "you got carried" lmao @ that double standard
yeah whatver my 10 iq kid says, who even going to care about your opinion in this world? NONE
now go cry a corner and support animals like kabir so u can find some friends in your miserable life
if you make 100 accounts and 99 calibrate at archon and 1 calibrates at high legend then are you high legend?
no you just got carried in your calibration and the inevitable lose streak and fall off of bracket is indeed 100% ur own fault
Kowardeta is so funny lol, I stopped reading her posts anyways after reading a few words from her again. She took a long time to show up and reply something though.
@kabir cheers man, I'd love to get anything above legend 2+, that's where you are at the learning curve then. Fuck the haters who are simply criticizing you because their life sucks (also, the high amount of these peeps doesn't surprise me, DotA has always been a sad toxic people game unfortunately). Play on the legend account, watch a lot of legend-ancient bracket videos and become an ancient. Good luck man!!
yeah sadly i have very high report rate, as u can see it in the other thread, i just noticed i got reports on pick phase for not playing the role (only valid explanation). damn feels good losing behavior score cause chen and venge are NOT supports.
i knew it from beginning. there is no place for person like me in animal community like this.
6k fucking mmr and im getting reports for picking chen before game even starts. if i had the power, i would sterilize you animals one by one proudly.
Будь ласка, увійдіть до системи для написання коментарів.
please stop talking about getting bullied when you are making accounts over and over for your life to prove your friends who bullied you on your games you are better and u are not the problem. please stop this and respect yourself for first time in your life. this is just not making any sense. nobody is bullying you. you are asking others to shit on your face.
ROFL, it doesnt mean im just good at it on internet, it shows i can even dig your soul from texts you write monkey.
am i ruining everybody life here by telling them just stick to one account and get better or get over it and play for fun?? HELLO? are u that miserable and childish which u get sad if somebody tell u the reality which u suck in this game?? go cry for gaben then why hurting your feelings by giving you crusader medal in first place.
you should be good at everything?? you think every body is your mom in this world?? am i supposed to encourage my little kid here and say dont give up and make new account? ROFL!
i think someone who are fighting with everybody in his brain and start cutting their sentences to reach his desire outcome is really mentally ill and need to visit a doctor :)
Thought so. No new comments or intelligent arguments from you.
I began playing 2 years and a half ago, had herald 2. Climbed all the way up to archon 3 but fell back down to crusader 1 by playing with my friends. As from there, every solo game of mine is infested by midorfeeders, throwers, people who ward our own NC and I can go on. I find it unfair that I have to struggle with this in order to try and climb on my main account, winning 10 and losing 12, playing 3vs7 almost everyday. The mmr system is not adjusted to what my learning curve has proven to be.
Anyways, I'll be intelligent and re-take the original query for my biggest curiosity of why is there so much hate here. You say we and all the people who makes new accounts to "escape" their mmr are ruining the game. Finally you made some explanation which is all you needed to do instead of just throwing words of hate.
Can you explain why our actions affect the game's economy and drives the playerbase down? Provide numbers, facts, real articles on this. Don't mention that one of Valve's priority is to unable smurfs, because that's already known. Your own impression and information will do just fine, maybe, as you're a high ranked player and you must know things, but I'd like sources or information too if possible.
Please use quotes to address specific people that you are replying to, otherwise you just look like you are speaking aimlessly at people.
I presume this was a calibration that you made immediately when you began playing, however you can not climb your solo mmr by playing with friends so this simply doesnt make sense. You wont lose solo mmr by playing with friends, sure you medal likely decreased if you calibrated your party mmr since I imagine this would have been very low to begin with, but this does not effect your solo games.
Every bracket you will ever play in will be infested by these people that you talk about. There is no escaping them, I have played games with Divine-Immortal average where teammates and enemies alike have been toxic feeders. If you are incapable of solo carrying a team of imbeciles in Crusader games then you simply do not stand a chance in higher brackets unless you learn how to play the game. If you cant beat crusaders, you will not fit in anywhere in the higher brackets and you will not be able to sustain your mmr. This is a fact.
There is hate here because this forum is a cesspool of people who are only interested in fake smurf calibration and what their mmr will be from it. Nobody is interested in your activities, especially when they are ridiculous as the ones in this thread.
No evidence is needed to back up this claim, it is very common knowledge which can be seen not only by the declining playerbase numbers but also the experience of myself, my friends, and the majority of the older community of this game. I am not a high ranked player either so do not refer to me like that, I am a 3k trench player like a lot of other people here. Smurfs ruin this game for new players and experienced players alike, players under-calibrate their mmrs purposefully to kick the shit out of low skill players because it brings them enjoyment, this deters new and low skill players from investing time and energy into the game and becoming better. In the Archon-Legend-Ancient games which I predominantly play, there will often be smurf accounts which belong to high skill players and boosters who dominate the games and ruin the experience for others. At the highest level, people make smurf accounts and calibrate them at Divine and Immortal, and then sell these accounts to low skill players such as the one that made this thread who believe they are a good player and are being held back by feeders and poor teammates. These players then proceed to ruin games for other people because they are complete trash and force their team to play a 4v6. Rampant smurfing has poisoned this game at every level by hiding the nature of your opponents and providing unnecessary handicaps to your team, or an unnecessary advantage to the other, they make the game less skill based and more luck based as to who is going to get the booster on their team and who is going to get the Crusader imbecile that inflated their calibration or bought an account. People are not interested in playing a game like that, I can not think of any other ranked multiplayer game which suffers from the troublesome matchmaking problems Dota does. People do not want to play a skill based team game when there is so much luck as to who you are going to have assigned to your team, people want games to be fair and balanced and to be matched with opponents of their skill level who have played for some time on that account to match their skill level, thus ensuring the integrity of the game and a fair balance across both teams, anything else is just random rng and defeats the purpose of grinding to be better.
buddy as a guy with crusader 1 medal i think you are not supposed to talk about intelligence. if you think you are, just go search "IQ test" and get an estimation about your place among others.
the whole fucking point of gaining mmr in solo ranked is winning hard games, everybody can win easy games. if you cant you are not deserved to be higher mmr. if u be 4k bad players are still there. if u be 5k bad players are there. if u be 6k 7k its still the same. of course a 5k bad player is not as bad as 2k one at all. but you are competing with other 5ks not 2ks, if u get the bad 5k player in your team you are in disadvantage and for gaining mmr in this bracket u need to win this hard game simply because every body can win easy games!!! its still the same rule!
bad draft, meeting a smurf, having ruiners, etc its all the part of a hard game. you should push ur limits and try to win this games. if you cant, your not supposed to be higher mmr cause mmr is relative and only ppl who can win those games gaining it!
and for the rest of your stupid speech i never claimed that. i just said he is not a real anshit player and we will see what will happen in the next 200 games, and as u can see the guy lost 2 medal and started to queue with guardians. why?? to fool the system again and get easier games. i just opened mulli profile in dota, a guy who play party games recently. https://www.dotabuff.com/players/101279405
check it yourself
5 recent ranked games summary:
1. 1 achon 3 guardian 1 herald against 3 crusader 1 guardian 1 herald :S
2. 2 archon 3 legend against 2 archon 2 legend and a fucking anshit 5 how ridiculous is that? anshit 5 huskar midlane against archon 4 troll , do u see any fairness or competition in this game? yikes
3. oh no no no, 4 legend 1 archon against 1 divine 1, 1 anshit 5, 1 legend 1 archon and a crusader. how stupid this is?? in any scenario do you think that crusader 1 deserves his gain/loss mmr of this match? do you think he has any impact in this game?
4. finally a balance game. wow good job gaben
5. legend 1 midlaner against crusader 5, guess who got stomped :))
so yeah tldr; a guy who abused calibration system to get anshit, now abuses retarded party matchmaking on low mmr games to get easy opponents and keep up with winning. wonderful!
It's strange to call something unfair when ALL players who have to enter at the bottom of the ladder have to go through the same shitshow of throwers and tilters. Surely being put through the same process as everyone else is the precise definition of "fair"?
Not to mention there are other fallacies in this quote. The whole idea of winning 10 and losing 12 on your main, and blaming it on the mmr bracket that you're in, whatever trench you may think you are in, is laughable. If you cannot generate a positive win ratio over the course of a large sample size of games, the only person who you should look at is yourself. Not the tilters, not the throwers, not your idiot cores or your idiot supports. Not only because you can only really control yourself so you should look inwards for improvement, but also because we know that someone who is head and shoulders above a bracket can climb out of it easily via solo carrying, by taking over a game whilst playing ANY role.
Now you might say, "But I'm a support player, I don't have the farm to take over a game". However, Speed made a very good guide on how you can take over a game from pos five, simply by pushing the lane, stack pulling, and crushing them out with level advantage. He makes sure that he's always scaling, and gets multiple good ganks off because he's overfarmed for his role, and has the freedom to roam to other lanes (which cores can't do as easily), and just crushes the game in sub 20 minutes. In fact, if you're significantly better than your opponents, you can win the game solo as a support more easily than a carry can, because your timing as a support is much earlier than the cores.
The other fallacy in your quote is that there are ruiners all the time in your bracket. What, do you think there are no game ruiners, mid feeders and generally toxic players in higher mmrs? Do you think of high mmr 10k behaviour score games as flame free chillax games where everyone is ultra PMA? Well, I am here to tell you, even 10k behaviour score 5k games can absolutely get fully tilty. Watch enough high mmr streams and you realise that human psychology is the same whether you're 2k or 5k or 7k. There are egos, there's Dunning Kruger, there's ragers. There's also the fallacy of complaining about ragers and throwers on your team. If you yourself are not a rage/thrower, you have a smaller chance of having a rage/thrower on your team than the enemy team. You think there aren't rager/throwers on the enemy team? If only you could see their team chat, then you'd realise that rager/throwers basically settle into a 50-50 pattern over a large sample size.
My best advice for solo queue is: focus criticism only on yourself and what you can do better, mute flamers and tilters, and try to salve the egos of your cores whilst tilting their cores. It's basically free mmr.
Warning: TL;DR: just go to the conclusion at the end.
I don't see the need for any direct hostility towards people who create alt accounts/smurfs. The behaviour is actually rampant, but there are implications of such an explosion of smurfs that I'll explore further later. But if you try to see it from the usual dotabuff user, you may realise that nearly half of the threads are basically 50 game smurfs posting GUESS MY MMR CALIBRATION and it basically becomes the same shitshow thread on repeat.
The behaviour being criticised isn't the making of an alt account. Most people have one. Hell, I even had one that became my main because I thought I had MMR stagnation in a 4k account and got my alt calibrated at 4.5k, which became my main until TI ranked allowed me to up my main to 5.4k.
The behaviour that IS being criticised is when some players, dissatisfied with their mmr on their main, create multiple new accounts in order to calibrate higher than their previous calibration. Since calibration is fundamentally a small sample size (only 10 games), if you get really lucky you may just get 10 ez games and calibrate higher than where you should be. This is what parma described as "calibration lottery", and if you've simply calibrated 10 times to get where you wanted to be, holding up X badge as an achievement seems cheap to the entire rest of the dota population that grinded their medal. I'm not claiming that this applies to you directly: for all I know this is your first alt account and you don't spam smurfs. But those who are perceived to be smurf spammers appear to normal players to be deluded, thinking they are much better than their bracket when in fact their stats reveal that they are really not as good as they claim to be.
If you do end up at a higher mmr than you should be, every game that you end up losing on your way to your mmr plateau, could be seen as griefing your team. During these games, you're basically the same as a boosted account, and very frustrating to play with.
Also, mmr economies can be seen very similarly to money economies, since fundamentally they are about trading a finite resource (money vs mmr). This is an important analogy. Unless there's smurf detection, every game in dota trades some mmr between the winning and losing teams, and hence dota can be described as a zero sum game: the mmr loss is equal to the mmr gain, so each game is mmr neutral from an mmr economic perspective.
In money economies, inflation is largely driven by printing more money, and in mmr economies, mmr inflation is largely driven by creating new accounts, since every new account injects mmr into the mmr total of the economy. A small amount of mmr inflation can be healthy. Following the analogy, small inflation causes people to trust the system and readily exchange their mmr, since mmr means something. However, imagine if every player in the game decided to make a smurf, doubling the amount of mmr in the system. Then the top mmr in the game would probably have 15k mmr, since mmr always flows from weaker players to the strongest players over time. MMR inflation can be readily seen by the way that top players start the season at 8k, now Arteezy is 10k. The main reason for this is the rampant population of smurfs being created. There's a reason that in Chess, players who become inactive are removed from the MMR system, because this is a way of bleeding the amount of mmr from the economy, and as a result the top mmr in chess is only 2862, second place is 2842, third place is 2805. (Gaps in mmr are always the biggest at the very top of the table).
If there are too many random smurfs in the game, game quality is reduced, because some games will be griefed by boosted accounts, and some games will be griefed by smurfs who are better than the game. Especially if they are smurfs playing above their bracket, they are simply accounts that will transfer mmr from lower legit players to the best players, inflating the top mmrs to 10k and beyond, meaning 4k mmr at the beginning of the season is more akin to 4.5k mid season and 5k end of season. Mmr inflation literally means each mmr point is worth less.
If you happen to have multiple accounts, you are making the game worse for everyone, whether it's because you're playing above or below your bracket, because mmr inflation and smurfs reduce trust in the mmr system.
TL; DR:
If you really want to climb, it's really not that difficult to climb out of the trench. The only thing required is a positive winrate.
To have a positive winrate, make sure you focus on yourself and your own play. Write off any tilter thrower games as outliers, and simply focus on winning more than you lose. The mmr system will always allow you to climb if you win more than you lose.
Blaming everything else other than yourself is a weak mentality that will only hold you abck.
P.S.
if you wanna see how someone can climb from normal skill to VHS:
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/111326429
this is a friend's account that literally started at 900 mmr and never played a moba before. Just played with better players, listened to better players, watched replays and streams and videos, and is now div 4 in 3000 games.
Well said.
@Hazelfelinonip Now this a nice conversation to have, for a change. You can learn a few things here, Cowardeta.
Acknowledged. I guess I'll just keep trying my best on my main account until I succeed. Many thanks brother.
No problem.
I would highly recommend this video that I mentioned: Speed lays out a very simple roadmap on how to win lane as pos 5 in any situation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qag07ZDsIuU
I've been applying these ideas in my own games, at 5.6k, and crushing lanes with my duoqueue partner. Also, we've managed to beat strong immortal lanes in our 5 stack games (like 1k mmr average above us), simply by abusing pushing the wave+ stack pulls. Not that I mean we will win every time, only that the ideas laid out in the video will apply all the way from 0 mmr to the highest levels of play.
Also, brushing up on your laning and early game rotations will instantly gain you hundreds if not a thousand mmr at that bracket, simply because if you're that much better at laning you will be able to get kills and farm and xp and become a pos 3 from pos 5, and then if you gank the map accordingly you can easily solo win games.
If you end up winning your lanes and become a fourth core in the majority of your games, I promise you you will accelerate out of your perceived trench in no time.
P.S. If you're concerned that this will take a long grind, know that if you improve quickly enough, you can actually be smurf detected on your main, like a friend of mine who zoomed from rank 1500 immortal to rank 800 in a few days. If you are really better than your bracket and play consistently better than your bracket, you can earn +100 for a win whilst only losing -20 if you lose... so as always, focus on yourself as much as possible. Player skill goes all the way up to 10k right now, there's always more that you can do in your games, just like there is always more that I can do in mine.
Y speed has quite simple and very good avices that actually work and work on every bracket, but people are usually immune to knowledge.
One of them is: "Hit the creeps. Creeps give advantage. If funny how many people forget to hit the creeps." I love this guy. No homo.
im going to spoil it, sry. he is legend 4 now
he made his account private again
i just wonder, is there any point in his life so he get ashamed and apologize or not. im still waiting
He removed me from his friends list. I feel bad for his two guardian friends he played with to get 2k avg games as he couldn't carry them and they just ended up losing their mmr too.
damn, you were the only person who cares for him said by the guy himself.
EHOME vs RNG (ALL 3 GAMES HIGHLIGHTS) - ESL ONE LOS ANGELES 2020 (China) Online DOTA 2
https://youtu.be/LyYtZHYaFWY
I shuld apologize to tyski
But not to do you kowerta
And congratulations on ur immortal rank
Just better attitude towards people
Definitely I will change my words for u
Tyski I removed all of my friends as things r not getting working out.
The account has hardly 3 people in it
In which 1 of them is my own account
U have done lots of good for me
I'm extremely sorry and by unfriending u
I'm the loser because I couldn't see ur games or replays.
The way u play wd n cm it's absolutely amazing.
I'm able to say one thing I went to legend 4 now
And then I went back to my old archon 1 account where I have all my arcana n immortals etc.
I am easily able to win.
This anshit 2 account helped me learn few things and ur advises tyski has improved me alot for pos1.
I'm sorry again ☹️
Please forgive me tyski
why would u even apologize to me? u think i give a shit what a fucking donkey like you thinks about me? seriously?
u should apologize for being an animal who waste others time in this thread, and suggesting making new accounts to other ppl in other threads.
you should go say sry to every one of ppl who lost mmr cause u cant accept reality which u are not good in this game.
so this guy kabir made a smurf and got ranked too high now he is losing then he made another smurf let some booster play on it and then took it again and sucks still waht a fucking wonder. also he pretends this acc was another person. conclusion this shit is pathetic.
hey man by following kabirs guide i instantly got an account with immortal complete with 20 anime girls kabir is a godsend
You arent legend 4 you fucking clown haha, you are a deluded archon AT BEST.
You have a shit winrate, you get your friend to play on your account, you disable match data cause you are trash and want to conceal when your friend wins and when you lose and you cant even win when you stack with Guardians. What the fuck did you think? We wouldnt notice how shit you are? Either you are a completely delusional clown or you are secretly a master of trolling, but I really doubt that.
Stay on your shitty crusader main and climb on your own, no boosters, no stacks, then come here and give us an update when you reach Legend on that account you utter autist.
A lot of objections in the comment above.
Calm down parma, as a former deluded person (doubt u changed tho) u need to be more patient with this guy and understand him better than us!
Actually winning with 2 guardians is more difficult than on solo q. They wont carry you if you have a bad day.
But the post about how sorry Kabir is to delete Tyski from his friends list is hilarious. Tyski you were just a burden in his delusional creation of himself.
if u just read what i said before about partying with low ranks you wont came up with this. its not about getting carried. party games are retarded, how a game with a anshit 5 in one side and archons on the other is balanced? how its fair to say the guardian player who got carried by anshit one deserve that mmr. isnt is just another version of smurfing???
Its not entirely true. You have 2 guardians, Anshit and 2 legends while whole enemy team can be well balanced Legend team what makes you responsible for carring them. Its not that easy for Anshit who is not experienced enough in actually carring the game.
It can also be the other way as you mentionee which would be true as well. Imo party queue system was better. Now its more of a lottery.
yeah, thats right, if u be an anshit player like asylum who lost his 4th game on herald as a booster it can be considered as a balance game. your anshit medal is fake anyway.
but to me being X medal means you are able to stomp X-1k mmr medal like an ez on your own. so its not going to be other way in my opinion if you really be that X medal. specially in games i mentioned they are matching archon midlane agaisnt anshit 5!!! it cant be other way tbh. its just like smurfing. like you can see yourself, kabir as a legend 5 player laned against guardians crusaders most of his games!!
how does this garbage thread get 177 replies this is the reason why dotabuff forum is garbage.
well this thread has aged well. Someone made such a retarded thread that i have to side with Kowareta. If ur a 3k player u will stomp 1k if ur a 4k player u will stomp 2k if ur a 5k player u will stomp 3k. Theres no such thing as not being able to climb out of trench because of teammates. i could create a new account and have 90% winrate till i hit ancient regardless of teammates. @kabir if you are a real ancient you would be stomping archons thats just how mmr works. if u cant pass archon in you main account and u think ur an ancient player then goodsir u are deluded and in denial. dont create new account and ruin actual ancient players game with your incapability to pass archon.
ps. after all that talk about proving yourself at least be manly enough to keep your new account public, losing 4 straight then going private just proves even more how much in denial you are.
that isnt 100% true. I am divine now but my hardest games were when i was between legend 3 to ancient 1. Yes you do climb but that is due to some lucky win spree that pushes you out of a hell. There are certain levels where it is much easier and certain levels where it is much harder. Here is a great example. https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/5332997321 I with with peers who knows what they are doing and after a duel win we can actually get a roshan or tower we finish the game before we can die and give up spree or something. When I was in legend bracket I would hit all my item timings much faster. There were games where I even got dagger blademail treads before 14 mins. But we would lose cuz no one would play around me, no one provides the vision I need to get good jumps. They farm during allies power spikes and since his ally did not get anything during his power spike all future fights are weaker. You can talk about playing better urself and 5v1ing but that isnt dota.
https://prnt.sc/rssyib, https://prnt.sc/rsro59 Here is how you do it Kabir. 1 week, Archon 2 - Anshit 1. No new accounts, no party, just git gud, and play game. If I didn't play all them damn sniper pos 4 games, and fast queue farms It would be 100% win rate.
Only 1% of players have managed to climb out of 3k into 5k. If you think you belong to that 1% then prove it.
@NineO_OSix i understand what u mean, im a support player and the hardest for me to get out of was low 5k, once i hit 5.5 i quickly made it to 6k. this is normal because there are certain synergies that cannot be made with player in the 4k bracket. however were talking about crusader vs ancient, in this case regardless of team synergy u shud be able to carry your team if your an ancient playing vs crusader. theres a HUGE difference between crusader and ancient in terms of mechanical skill.
also another reason would be you have actually improved massively since then, for you hardest to get out of was legend to ancient, this probably means ur a team player and rely on a level of understanding in dota. but gradually you would have become better at dota as well. my point is that you said legend 3 to anc 1 was hardest to pass, but if u made a legend 3 account right now would it take u that long to hit ancient 1 now that your a divine 1 player? my guess is absolutely not.
@NineO_OSix
thats a fact man, its how everything works. if u get your MS degree and struggling in solving BS problems it means you just cheated to get your degree. its so fucking simple!!!
why i feel my 7k ranked matches 5k mmr mirana pos 4 is an animal who cant land stun even tho the heroes getting slowed by boar? why i feel my 9k ranked games es player cant fissure properly without blocking us and let enemy escape?? 5k mmr sucks? NO i had very good players too, they cheated to be 5k, they just increased their play time, they just spammed broken heroes.
look at asylum, i flamed him a lot for his winrate and play time, he got divine 1, you saw what happened when he tried to boost a herald account , right?
look at yourself, why the fuck a guy who has 60% winrate on clinkz has 49% overall winrate in ranked games??? cause you are cheating. u dont understand dota, u dont understand clinkz. u just can win in a times the hero getting buffed and is broken like crazy.
if u had understanding of the game like a real X mmr that you are, you could manage to win with other heroes just like your clinkz.
@kabir no hard feelings at all lol, good luck in the future.
@lex Just gave him a couple tips for the laning stage :P
It was his biggest weakness along with itemization, but thats a lot more difficult to explain.
Lol clinkz at the lowest win rate it ever been. 46% win rate. Hardly broken and not even good. I just like the hero. Why dont you name a list of 5 heroes and i play those nothing would change. I love how you keep bring up my over all win rate when about 90% of them are like played 6 years ago and i had gaps of years where i quit. If you start from 2020 where I actually started to play seriously it is respectable.
yeah, your right about it, my bad.
but my point is still there, if u have 68% winrate on 4k mmr with your clinkz, you will definitely will manage to have +90% on 2k and +75% on 3k. yeah i cant do much in lane when i play beast solo against 2 or my pos 4 sucks ass. but when i tried it on 2k mmr lower; it doesnt matter any more. i could won that lane solo on my own without any help cause i know what im doing.
NOOO YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE STUCK IN YOUR BRACKET SO I CAN FEEL BETTER ABOUT MYSELF AND MY HARD EARNED RANK NOOO
someone is sad, need mama?? i cant find her here for you
the only sad posters here are the one screeching over someone else recalibration
also what's funny with dota players is that when you get lose streak and fall off of your bracket it's 100% your fault
but if you manage to climb it's because "you got carried" lmao @ that double standard
yeah whatver my 10 iq kid says, who even going to care about your opinion in this world? NONE
now go cry a corner and support animals like kabir so u can find some friends in your miserable life
if you make 100 accounts and 99 calibrate at archon and 1 calibrates at high legend then are you high legend?
no you just got carried in your calibration and the inevitable lose streak and fall off of bracket is indeed 100% ur own fault
Kabir can you commit suicide?
^haha asking someone to commit suicide very mature of you
CYBER LEGACY vs NIGMA (ALL 3 GAMES HIGHLIGHTS) - ESL ONE LOS ANGELES 2020 Online (EU-CIS) DOTA 2
https://youtu.be/QqmkktBsZI4
TEAM SECRET vs NIP (ALL GAMES HIGHLIGHTS) - ESL ONE LOS ANGELES 2020 Online (EU-CIS) DOTA 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJQoN8uwL8U
Kowardeta is so funny lol, I stopped reading her posts anyways after reading a few words from her again. She took a long time to show up and reply something though.
@kabir cheers man, I'd love to get anything above legend 2+, that's where you are at the learning curve then. Fuck the haters who are simply criticizing you because their life sucks (also, the high amount of these peeps doesn't surprise me, DotA has always been a sad toxic people game unfortunately). Play on the legend account, watch a lot of legend-ancient bracket videos and become an ancient. Good luck man!!
this is cant be real, this people cant be real.
rip kowareta back in low p again after 7 straight losses
yeah sadly i have very high report rate, as u can see it in the other thread, i just noticed i got reports on pick phase for not playing the role (only valid explanation). damn feels good losing behavior score cause chen and venge are NOT supports.
i knew it from beginning. there is no place for person like me in animal community like this.
6k fucking mmr and im getting reports for picking chen before game even starts. if i had the power, i would sterilize you animals one by one proudly.