Btw if a team of 5 heroes hypothetically have 10 hp regen (on average), then reducing it by 20% prevents 50 hp of healing every second, over a 20 second fight that is 1000 damage, not counting the reduction of life steal and burst heal, nor the active of spirit vessel. You’re insane if you don’t think this item is super good.
sry my bad, i didnt know im in college and i am publishing my essay
i actually consider thats might be the case in first place but because it has very low effect i didnt notice it in demo on low damage heroes.
well im reading your math and it doesnt makes any sense, 10 hp regen * 5 hero *0.2 reduction = 10 not 50. over 20 second 200 not 1000. its a very good item but not for every game. its not broken as i think it was because of making vladz useless.
its situational against certain heroes like huskar/chen/morph/alch/ls as its used to be, not broken to me
I think the main point of the vessel changes were so that it doesn't hard counter regen heroes like Necro, Alch, Huskar. It still does but not in the same way as before
But I don't see its offensive purposes as much anymore
can you explain how its not in the same way like before? the active does not stack with passive?
also i thought they increased item cost but its the same cost, im actually getting old. R.I.P young brain
Active does stack with passive but im not gonna do the math. :p
what math? its not additive? why these lazy devs dont just say these stuffs on descriptions.
Active stacks with passive but multiplicatively I think. Similar to how evasion stacks
Aura goes first: 20%, 0.2
Active goes 2nd: 35%, .35
If I'm understanding the math right, it's 0.2 + (.2 x .35) = 0.27= 27% HP regen reduction
If other way around and active is taken into account first, .35 + (.35 x .2) = .42 = 42% HP regen reduction
Dunno how to explain it, but I definitely felt its impact in a game vs an Alch. We spirit vessel'd the beast and he was just ignoring it, still regenerating quite a bit.
For lifesteal reduction, I think you have it right? 20% of 20% lifesteal is .04, so they're "only" lifestealing 16%
yeah its 16% for lifesteal
im not sure about how mult stack works in this case but i believe it must be sth like 1- (1-x)(1-y)... which leads to 48%
i mean someone in the team should have it regardless preferably 4 or 3
and if playing vs heroes like necro/dazzle/etc its just that much better
significantly worse vs morphs alchs and bristlebacks tho
Vessel reduces all sources of lifesteal by 20 percent plus healing and hp regen of enemies in a 1200 aoe.. Vessel reduces the heals of vlads (which is 20 percent) by 20 percent. So, let's say that you do 100 physical damage to an enemy hero (after reductions which is the amount of armor any unit has), within aoe of vlads. You essentially lifesteal for 20 hp. (lifesteal is different from healing). But if you do the same but also add the negative effect of vessel's debuff aura (not the active, only the new passive) , your lifesteal will be reduced by 20 percent. So, instead of healing for 20 hp now, you'll be healing for 16 hp (20% reduction).
regen/heal/lifesteal boosting abilities stack additively, not multiplicatively.
e.g. every hero has normal regen/lifesteal/healing i.e. 100%. if you apply spirit vessel aura (-20%) they will only have 80% of their normal regen. if that person has an sny or halberd (+30%), then they would have 110% of their normal regen, rather than 104% (so not 0.8 * 1.3 = 1.04).
spirit vessel still works more or less the same way it's just still useful when you have 0 charges.
previously using it would lower regen/heals/lifesteal by 60%, now it's 55% from the 20% aura and 35% from the active when both are on a target, but still overall better cos aura is aoe and still always active unless bkb'd (but then you can't use active anyway so that point is moot).
applying the aura for 2 seconds makes up for the 5% loss over the 8s duration of the vessel active.
e.g. alch lv 3 chemical rage restores 100 hp/s, so 1000 hp over 10s.
old vessel would reduce 60hp/s for 8s = 480 hp regen lost.
new vessel would reduce 55 hp/s for 8s = 440 hp regen lost, but if you chase the alch for 2s that reduces 20hp/s which is another 40 hp he doesn't gain, and don't forget you're still also applying vessel aura to his teammates.
^are you sure it’s additively? The heal reduction feels much less than 55%. I gave the example of the game vs the Alchemist I had, he still healed a decent amount. Might just be selective memory on my end. I’m lazy to test it
-All health regen and life steal manipulation stacks additively on one another.
Spirit Vessel Aura: 25% degen
Spirit Vessel Aura + Active: 60% degen
Spirit Vessel Aura + Active + Eye of Skaadi: 95% degen
-Take not that the total degen can be countered with a healing/lifesteal boost like Sange, Holy Locket, or Paladin Sword. So, to totally counter a Spirit Vessel passive and aura, you need Heart of Tarasque and Holy Locket (85% total heal boost).
-Apparition Ice Blast and Oracle False Promose is different. It completely stops health regen, thus cannot be countered by healing boost buff.
-Before reduction, it can deal a total of 200 + 27.86% of current health as damage to the target enemy on its full duration. That current health damage ultimately killing a morphling when morphing to str. Alche can be unharmed if no follow up although but his regeneration is greatly weakened during the debuff.
-Lifesteal and Health Regen mechanics doesnt work with one another.
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why its not reducing the lifesteal to zero? what am i missing here? its -20% and thats +20%. you shouldnt steal any life with the effect on you, right?