Force and glimmer I can understand, but why wouldn't ghost scepter work? That hero is literally all about hitting hard and it's how I survive to him.
He rushes necro, by the time supports get ghost, he has necro 3. The archer has purge.
Also, helm to dominate a purge creep.
Why not Eul's? IDK, zoo meta doesn't really show in low 3K, so I don't really run into Lycan. The few times I've had to run against him, I just pick Bloodseeker, rupture him and forget about him for the rest of the fight
I don't know about troll, but bloodseeker is definitely not a counter to lycan.
If you win against Lycan with a bloodseeker, then it's just a case of bad lycan or bad enemy team that doesn't know how to play around lycan. The whole gimmick of Lycan is 5 player controlled units with high dmg, high ms, and multiple abilities(active+passive) running at you, doubt a ruptured lycan is changes that.
Pa doesn't counter lycan. Lycan can end games before Pa can barely get 1 or 2 items. If you play lycan, your aim is to wrap the game early. That's also the reason why Lycan has 54% win rate/5% pick rate in low mmr, but has 59% win rate/10% pick rate in divine/immortal bracket. Lycan player knows how to use that hero, his team knows how to play around him.
Also, Euls can be dispelled.
Just play troll pa n bloodseeker. He s food
All heros which lose to Lycan... why would you pick any of these. If you actually want to beat Lycan then pick heros that outpush him like Naga and Terrorblade or heros that have strong aoe attacks, lockdown and crowd control like Sven, Kunkka, Winter Wyvern and Earthshaker.
Lycan is pathetic if u cross 40mins. Pa troll morph medusa alchy am almost any shit can kill him. This s good meta for ppl who want to come out of brackets like herlad guardian crusader and archon.
Just because it has good early game potential n can end game in 30mins doesn't mean nerf the hero n units. It is useless garbage in late game
Lycan is pathetic if u cross 40mins. Pa troll morph medusa alchy am almost any shit can kill him. This s good meta for ppl who want to come out of brackets like herlad guardian crusader and archon.
This is true for any early game stomp hero, all of which are picked purposefully to counter hard carries like pa, morph, medusa. etc. The whole point of picking Lycan is to end the game before these heros gain farm so saying that you should pick these heros to take the game late and out carry a Lycan is foolish and counter-intuitive and places too much faith on your teammates and the skill of the Lycan.
Parma with 2 Lycan games from 3 years back passing on her vast knowledge of her hero.
Wow Parma is getting good at dota. WP Parma :D
@OP : Lose to X hero multiple times in game, proceed to make thread about X hero is OP without thinking about it with brain. *slow claps*
3 words : Pick wave clear.
LOL, I haven't even played against lycan in weeks. I was just watching some youtube(specifically Sing2 and waga) and the thought crossed my mind. it's the opinion of 7k players that the zoo meta is bullshit. But you seem to be better than them i guess. Just a Immortal rank 1 stuck at anshit1.
Never in my post i said it's OP. But it's a trend where any hero with high winrate at immortal brackets is nerfed in one way or other.
@ashes, still salty about pos 4 bh.
I'm not talking out of thin air, If you just go here and see the win rates, the stats speak for themselves.
https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/meta
I'm sorry, but unlike you, I have facts. I don't just claim stuff without any evidence.
54% win rate BH stuck in anshit, claiming that you can reach divine by spamming BH and have 75% win rate. OMEGALUL.
Also, "hero is op" is not my thread you salty bitch, "pos 4 bh - isn't this hero op"- is your idea. projecting too hard?? Another OMEGALUL.
Yeah I’d recommend not picking am or pa against lycan. Best way to counter lycan in the draft at least is have big teamfight ults (void, tide, enigma, Es) or just have a shit ton of stuns.
Alternatively u can just play mid timber and destroy him.
Also yes he’s op imo. First pick material that can generally play well into counters, can have the highest net worth in the game after losing the lane, and solo carry the game with only a necro book and a helm classifies as OP in my book.
Parma with 2 Lycan games from 3 years back passing on her vast knowledge of her hero.
Are you illiterate? Did I claim to have a 'vast knowledge'? Did I say I even play Lycan? I see the hero picked along with other zoo keepers like Nature's Prophet, Beastmaster and Chen and I know what best counters them as anyone with a basic understanding of this game should have. I did not claim anything more or less than that so fuck off.
Lycan beats Bloodseeker and Troll, TB and Naga out push him basic knowledge btw.
From what I see people like gorgc pick in response to lycan it’s usually some sort of wall hero, that can sit in the frontline and basically block lycan from running straight to the supports and kill them. If he can do that then it’s really hard to do anything abt him. But heroes like bristle, troll, kunkka, even something like naga or pl who can block areas with illusions. Don’t bother buying ghosts and utility items unless you need it for another hero on the enemy team, usually having armor items or physical damage auras like ac, crimson, vlads, etc. is better.
Flex, remember I'm talking about brackets below 3k were all the players play selfishly and don't co ordinate. And I din say pick ultra late game cores. Bs n troll can take off lycan with 2 items.bs won't kill him but can control his movements. Troll can kill lycan with just 2 items like basher diffusal.. u say pick lycan if u want to end early
Remember one thing guys this is a team game
To fuck with what I want. The team shuld co ordinate n understand when all r dead they shuld push. Instead they go jungle. Lycan is huge success in divine immortal because they understand the hero potential. Here people farm n want to be a hero. No one cares about throne or objectives. That's why I just pick lycan. Kill their supports and run other lanes to push. I leave three or 2 heros to my team of 4. They kill them n commend eachother and celebrate like monkeys n praise eachother while I push n farm push n waveclear. If my team is too bad. Then gg I also become bad n throw the game. Lycan spike is max 35mins after that the hero is crap.
Checkout this game match id : 5484743657
See whom I went on n kept killing. Though I'm not a good lycan player.
@goku : So your arguement is I suck at bh cos I only have 54% winrate on him in this account? *slow claps*.
Someone once said 'Talking to a wall is better than trying to talk some sense to a donkey'. He was right I realise.
My argument is not that you suck at Bh.
My argument is, you claim that "following your advice, anyone can have 75% winrate at Archon-divine."
I simply asked that you prove that statement. You are a anshit 1 dog. Play 100 games on BH, have 75% winrate, show me "how op pos4 bh is", and that's it.
1) You make blatant claims, without any evidence backing it.
2) You ask for opinion, but negative opinion/asking for evidence means "Garbage legend players" (ironically coming from a anshit1).
3) "I only have 54% winrate on him in this account" pretending to have multiple accounts doesn't really help your case. I don't care which account, show me 75% winrate on even 100 Bh games in ranked and I'll concede.
Again, just stop, you are embarrassing yourself in 3 threads now.
Don't let this become the historical "1k games are harder than 3k games" thread, where everyone just revisits old thread to laugh at someone's stupidity.
It's the necrobook that has a problem, like you said no item counters him as a support.. change necro and ghost becomes a possibility again
alternatively make ghost not dispellable (but necro needs a nerf regardless).
Necrobook in itself doesn't seem that op. I feel it's just the heroes carrying them make it broken.
Beast master- the as aura + flying vision + axe amp + long bkb peircing stun.
Lycan- Shapeshift + howl
Even without necro, most zoo heroes carry helm. That's an even cheaper purge creep.
Ghost not dispellable might be solution but feels like it will be broken then.
The only way I feel, is limiting the heroes ability effects on controlled units.
Kinda curious to see how they manage to balance it, or will they just ignore it in next patch.
necrobook is definitely broken when every hero in dota is buying them, in what world is treant buying necrobook make treant broken
@pensive I think you misunderstood my point. Simple way to explain my point is.
Lets say necro book is "x" power grade and heroes have a base "y" power grade.
In case of heroes like lycan and bm who have abilities and itemization that synergies completely with the necro book, the power is multiplied- x*y
In case of other heroes who buy it cause it's a good item, the power is added- x+y
(Note: the above explanation is how I see the game, don't read them as me stating any kind of facts. TY )
Since, 7.20 the only changes to Necro book are.
Buffs
1) Total cost from 2400/3700/5000 to 2150/3400/4650
2) Last Will damage from 550/675/800 to 600/700/800.
3) Mana regeneration bonus from 1/1.25/1.5 to 3/3.5/4
4) Gold bounty from 100/150/200 to 50/100/150. Experience bounty from 100/150/200 to 50/100/150.
Nerfs
1) Demonic Summoning mana cost from 50 to 150.
2) Reduced Strength bonus from 10/15/20 to 6/12/18.
It's a good item. But, it's just certain heroes make it broken. Most heroes don't build helm as a regular item. The buffs to helm kinda explains the sudden power spike of item.
the mana regeneration is why its broken. because these heroes like tree and other heroes who arent based on summons, some of them really like buying sages mask in lane because of the strong mana regen, and then it very nicely scales into necro 1 for farming and split pushing. i personally dont think its that certain heroes make overpowered use of the units, or at least i dont think thats what tipped it over the edge of "very good on certain heroes" to where it is now, "good on too many heroes". i see ur point tho, but even most lycans dont rush helm anymore over necro, because if 1 person on their team buys it then they dont need the aura, and then they can have a faster necrobook. however u can often see multiple necrobooks on a team. also imo its only necro 1 thats broken, honestly just nerfing the mana regen scaling from 3/3.5/4 to smth like 1.5/3.25/4 would definitely make necrobook not as storng.
Look at this 2k telling another 2k about their opinion on Lycan, What a GREAT time to be alive!
@pensive, Still doubt how that will solve the 4/5 op units running at you with max speed and murdering you problem.
What Goku said. I expect nerf to dominator and its the end of zoo meta without even touching heros.
i can see it both ways, honestly theres a lot of issues in my head between hotd, and necrobook and some zoo heroes, and im not entirely sure which need to be nerfed specifically, but in my head the mana regen on necrobook definitely needs to be nerfed. but thats just what i think.
also classic, "haha look at this guys mmr, he is speaking? weird. :)" and then saying nothing else 4Head
@pensive, Mana regen makes it a great pickup, but the zoo problem will probably be balanced in some other way hopefully.
As Lex suggested, they might just nerf the Hotd or they might tweak some abilities. Overall, curious to see some icefrog balance.
also, If someone is not adding any information to conversation, it's a good idea to ignore them.
What's really OP right now is howl, 2000 range around you & the wolves is way too much.
Lost Huskar vs TA because wasn't expecting a wild -5 armor to appear on me 3m into the game.
Howl forbids most carries to even dream of trading with him and fewer carries can survive his damage output in the earlier stages of the game.
Even a single point has too much value ; -5 armor for 5s in a 2000 AoE around 3 possible sources.
Necronomicon being a bit too easy to build up is my only issue with it.
Fair chance they nerf it by removing the STR that makes Lycan/BM too strong with it and replace it with flat hp.
I play lycan (sometimes) and i think BS is a weak counter, a good lycan wont go in before bs used rupture, and most of the time, they cant hold the rupture only for lycan cause it's literally the only thing that makes BS strong in teamfight (with the passive and all)
I would say naga is good against him if you can manage to drag the game to late game, or PA if you can hold and not getting ur ass kicked in first 20 minutes and maintain ur networth at least the same as the lycan. PA destroys lycan if you can manage to just stay level with his networth. Some people said troll is good, but he's kinda easy to kite and you need to be really ahead in networth to win with troll
now that they basically nerf every lycan's item i think it's time to see if the hero still good.
Будь ласка, увійдіть до системи для написання коментарів.
Lycan is a pain in ass to deal with. Ghost doesn't work, Gimmer doesn't work, Force barely works. It seems the only way to win against Lycan is hoping that the player is bad.
The only counter play to Lycan as far as I gathered is, "Play aggressive when shapeshift is on cooldown".
If they decide to nerf, Will Limiting shapeshift buffs to wolves, balance the hero or make it unplayable?