Wow you are jealous of Beesa now too? Bet you would lose to those "scrubs" he was against. I'm sure his supports excellent control of that game had nothing to do with luna free farming. The other team must just suck to let it happen. Yeah, that's how they got to be in the first position on page 1 of very high. That's how they maintain 60% win rates...its because they suck.
Really just being in a game against Murs and Beesa is a sign that they are extremely good players.
Anyway...that's all beside the point. The point is...this is what one of the best farmers in the world can do with free farm. Over 13 cs/min.
I don't usually get good support when I play luna, but even if I do...
http://dotabuff.com/matches/224846002 7.8 cs/min
Getting over 8 cs/min is not easy on luna. 13 is incredible...your record on Luna is currently 7.08 cs/min. You should respect performance so vastly superior to your own.
Obviously Burning plays harder games. But really Beesa is as good if not maybe a little better at farming than Burning. You are good enough to know its true if you watch him play, Swiftending. Watch a game from his PoV sometime. The only way he will not be a tier 1 pro carry someday is if he chooses to do something else.
Ugh... nobody is saying he isn't good but you're taking pub game stats (which don't prove almost anything) as a given. I've watched some guy in ixdl have ~300 cs in 20 min and 450 in 30 min with luna by skipping beam and ult and just circling both woods all game as his team was winning 4v5 easily. I've played pubs where I just wanted to farm all game and got over 10 cs/min on multiple heroes (even luna recently) and you'd say I'm one of the world's best farmers because of that? Hardly lol
What matters is how you do under pressure and in games that actually matter. With 5 decent people stacking and playing seriously 90% of the pubs are no challenge whatsoever so you can do whatever you want - and you're taking those stats literally number for number and comparing them which is illogical
Everyone one of those scenes were from my first account (Diamond level, 99th percentile, 2250 DBR). KDA and win rate is low on my first account because I always fool around with refresher orb and do not care about counter picks.
I have unbelievable win rate and kda on invoker on this permanent account because I was super tryhard for 102 games with invoker. However, I found it supremely stressful like work so I gave up.
BTW, try to stay on topic. The Luna replay was the only legit and good one submitted so far. No exploits please.
hmm apparently Vaikiss wanted to play for EE, but didn't make the cut.
Swiftending you sell yourself short. You need to realize that you being able to do something does not make it easy. What you can do is actually impossible for nearly everyone.
You are correct that what you can do under pressure is more meaningful. But getting perfect cs with free farm is also beyond the abilities of nearly everyone...even many current pro carry players. Can you do it? Think about it. Do you have a game where you got the first 80 cs without missing one? Anyone who can actually do that should consider becoming a pro player.
if you have uncontested freefarm where no-one interrupts you for 10 minutes it's easy as fuck to get the full cs as long as you have a stout, regen and a qb or an aoe hero (like storm).
what happens in pubs is pretty irrelevant anyhow but if some non-pro player got asked to play in KP right now i'm pretty sure he'd accept without a second thought unless he really hated EE and/or CWM so much that it'd be impossible to play on same team. fact is that KP is one of the best western teams right now and they've proved it in recent tournies (at least the one's they ahven't been kicked out of LMAO)
Your extremely narrow minded view of the possible reasons someone might not accept a position on a pro team makes you look foolish DMX.
You have the talent to get 10 cs/min games...but perfect is another level. Do you really think you are that good? You say its "easy"...have you ever done it? I bet you have not. But Beesa has.
Dotabuff Plus used to record the top 80 performances of the week for each hero. Sadly this was frozen 5 months ago when DBR died. But you can still see the records from that final week. NO ONE got 80 cs at 10 min. Many of these nearly 3,000 top rated games I surveyed for this list were played on the verified accounts of pro carry players playing one of their signature carries.
In the top rated 80 games the record high cs at 10 min was
Alch 66
AM 69
BS 65
CK 65
BF 67 (clinkz)
Drow 70
FV 71
Gyro 74
Jugg 69
Kunka 70
LS 79 http://dotabuff.com/matches/107117083 so close! 2nd best was 65
LD 64
Luna 67
Lycan 71
Magnus 67
Medusa 64
Meeps 77 (plenty of jungle + lane by 10 min...still not 80)
Morph 61
Naga 62
NP 64
OD 65
PA 72
PL 73
SA 61
SF 73
SK 68
Sniper 61
Spectre 59
Storm 65 (Vaikiss on this highscore at 54! very good...but not 80)
Sven 72
Tiny 70
Troll 75
Viper 66
Weaver 63
This represents the best games of the highest ranked players of these heroes that week. Nearly 3000 games and not even one got 80 cs by 10 min. Reality check. It is nearly impossible to do this and if you are one of the best farmers in the entire world who can get perfect farm...the game you do it you are likely to be the only one in the world that week who has done it.
I have only seen 3 pro players ever hit the first 80 cs without missing. Loda, Black, and Burning and I've only seen them each do it one time. If you think it is "easy" you are just naïve, unaware of how many cs you actually miss. Reality is less than 0.5% of the best games by the best carries even get 70+.
last time i checked there was this thing called jungle and anyone who knows atleast basics of this game knows that farming only lane is inefficient as fuck
A screenshot is not jungling. All we really see here is more cs than has spawned, a ton more gold than the lane produces in a real game. And items and a skill build that are for nothing but reaching a cs target...against literally no players, no lane control even took a free tower. This is so far from reality its a joke.
IF this was a serious attempt to show his cs skills, and I can't see how it was, its extremely sloppy. Vaikiss is really very good at lasthitting. I'm sure he can put up some impressive stats in a real game.
That's pretty good KryMoFo. It looks like Luna is your best farming hero now.
76 cs at 10 min is excellent. Now consider how that compares to the farm rate of the Medusa ancient strat.
Medusa gets a little higher gpm on the ancients than perfect or near perfect farm in the lane...So could lanes be set up to protect ancient farm and still get a decent amount of farm and xp out of the lane? Is ancient farming really so much harder to protect than a regular free farm lane for the carry?
What if you put heroes that had the power to push out lanes to keep pressure on towers so rotation to stop the ancient farming was too expensive?
Suppose you have DS offlane, Puck or QoP mid, enchantres or chen in the jungle and Juggernaut soloing safelane. I think a set up like that could support the lanes and have the flexibility to push or rotate to fight at the ancients if a strong effort to contest it was made. With appropriate warding this could lead to a very strong mid-game push with the option of a super farmed Medusa late as a fall back. Overall that is going to take in a lot more gold and xp than the regular tri-lane setup.
Medusa farm safe lane, and I haven't tried it, but SD could probably triple stack on the radiant side (x2 medium and x1 hard, but can definitely do at least x2 medium camps), easiest CS of your life. Issues are of course an offensive tri-lane screwing dusa's farm (and life), as well as giving xp to the enemy offlane hero (solo) when you are stacking instead of pulling/double pulling, although you could probably pull for the first few minutes and then stack the camps for medusa later on.
The idea is that the regular lane xp, and some of the lasthits will still be there for another hero...while the ancient farm is better than perfect cs and xp and is all bonus above the regular amount you get from your lanes.
The question is how does that compare to the farm and xp you would get from supports sharing jungle pulls and how easy is it to secure in comparison.
----------------------------------------------------------------
2 medium camps, if you get every spawn on both would be 204 gpm average and 412 xpm...that's divided between the supports.
wait a min...Medusa must have got a lot from the mid-lane too in that replay or really lucky on the spawns...
Average from the ancients is 265 gpm and 355 xpm. So its equal to solo lane xp, but only as good as last hitting 3 creeps per wave. Still its a lot more than 2 medium camps...
So if you can get 6 cs/min of the lane farm from say...the juggernaut. And one jungle support still farms 2 camps/min...the advantage from going ancients to the team is about 186 gpm and 355 xpm higher. By 6 min your team would have a 1K gold advantage and maybe 2 levels ahead on your supports over the other team who defensively tri-laned and pulled to camps.
But can this set up deal with an aggressive tri-lane well? That's harder to see.
lol when ur playing for example antimage u get ur battlefury 10-20 min then u sweep out the lane go for neutrals and go to other lane or back to same lane when its pushed back i did basicly same principe with luna ofc i could have went tranquils and achieved same considering that i was eating and just wanted to try how much il get in 10 mins i didin't bothered to do anything else
also i don't see why midas + dominator is unrealistic prettysure loda did this couple times month or so ago
You can't report me because there is not a corrupt manual review to the report system.
Vaikiss if you can get 5600 networth on Luna by 10 min doing that...then go do it, win games with your new super powerful farming strat, break all the records. If you can...then do it. You have a team, they can protect your farm for it. If its real. Then use this marvelous plan in game and show you can really execute it. No one cares whether you were eating or trying or using one hand...none of that can be proved any more than you can prove you didn't just start the game with HoM and spawn extra creeps.
Since none of top 3,000 carry games got anywhere near that mark....guess what. Its not going to work in a real game.
You know in dota 1 I did actually get more gpm than that on Luna at 10 min. I had manta style...but I was solo mid, took 2 towers, and had 8 kills.
The question is can you get perfect cs in a real game...and your screenshot does nothing to indicate you can.
This is about lasthitting, Jerry. Vaikiss is being deliberately obtuse because he can't compare to Beesa's talent and it makes him angry because he is a narcissist. So he is trying to come up with various ways to change the focus from his weaker performance to a gimmick....
well what if my support Kotl stacked up 6 camps and got them all low and I added in another 20 cs from the jungle...blah, blah, blah
You can't hide the fact that you can't do it with these obfuscations. Maybe Jerry can get perfect cs, maybe karake can....maybe Vaikiss can and just chooses to fail in all his real games. But the fact is it's extremely difficult and you can't fake your way into pretending you are as good as the best in the world. Just because you don't like the fact that its not you...its still true. Your refusal to respect superior players out of spite and envy is not attractive.
As dota 2 becomes more organized such things will become more common knowledge. In the meantime I provided a nice dose of reality for anyone who chose to listen and gain a real perspective on what is good farm and what is amazing farm.
what you don't understand is that you won't get 80+ cs by 10 minutes of lanefarming when the lane is slightly contested
so it doesn't matter if it's a singleplayer game or not
you don't understand at all relentless, it's easy as fuck if you're against empty lane. you just tank the creeps and never let them get to the tower if you know you ain't gonna get ganked. with hero like storm you just stand there taking beating and either crow and spam remnant or buy enough regen. with qb/stout it might be slightly harder since you need to at least lasthit the creeps instead of just nuking them when they get low enough but still, it's simple for someone who's played the game long enough. the problem's that in most pubs you don't have an empty lane to farm. that's why in the DB stats you found there aren't any "perfect" scores (or i'd like to assume this is the reason). people also play way more lax in pubs in general. farming creeps when you're on the winning team against an empty lane is easy as fuck feat. what separates great carry players from good ones is when they can get amazing farm while their team is getting raped.
Wow you are jealous of Beesa now too? Bet you would lose to those "scrubs" he was against. I'm sure his supports excellent control of that game had nothing to do with luna free farming. The other team must just suck to let it happen. Yeah, that's how they got to be in the first position on page 1 of very high. That's how they maintain 60% win rates...its because they suck.
Really just being in a game against Murs and Beesa is a sign that they are extremely good players.
Anyway...that's all beside the point. The point is...this is what one of the best farmers in the world can do with free farm. Over 13 cs/min.
I don't usually get good support when I play luna, but even if I do...
http://dotabuff.com/matches/224846002 7.8 cs/min
Getting over 8 cs/min is not easy on luna. 13 is incredible...your record on Luna is currently 7.08 cs/min. You should respect performance so vastly superior to your own.
dk burning only 9.68 cs/min on luna record what a shitter, i bet those hall of fame farmers take him ez
Obviously Burning plays harder games. But really Beesa is as good if not maybe a little better at farming than Burning. You are good enough to know its true if you watch him play, Swiftending. Watch a game from his PoV sometime. The only way he will not be a tier 1 pro carry someday is if he chooses to do something else.
christ...
the sad thing is that you're actually being serious i feel bad for you
@Relentless rofl just go away. Your stupidity will affect the rest of us if you stay here.
Ugh... nobody is saying he isn't good but you're taking pub game stats (which don't prove almost anything) as a given. I've watched some guy in ixdl have ~300 cs in 20 min and 450 in 30 min with luna by skipping beam and ult and just circling both woods all game as his team was winning 4v5 easily. I've played pubs where I just wanted to farm all game and got over 10 cs/min on multiple heroes (even luna recently) and you'd say I'm one of the world's best farmers because of that? Hardly lol
What matters is how you do under pressure and in games that actually matter. With 5 decent people stacking and playing seriously 90% of the pubs are no challenge whatsoever so you can do whatever you want - and you're taking those stats literally number for number and comparing them which is illogical
relentless and his delusions
american = world class player
look @ arteezys streams chat there so fucking much delusional kids there same on liquids forums
don't u think if beese was better carry than burning he would already be in EG or Dignitas or TL ?
beesa is actually european
y i heard bessa studied under xboct
http://dotabuff.com/players/96491823/records
lol 1439 GPM WITH AXE!!
really fun to brag about it... until someone clicks on the match details.
beesa was invited to join kaipi and turned them down
who would want to play with envy in same team anyway :D
@You_Got_Fukt
Invoker's Raging Fury 4: 46409699, 43996191, 44383634, 47833518, 48181547, 56245360, 48647414
WoDota Top Ten Vol 5
17986335
DotaCinema Hall of Fame Episode 50
32480171
Everyone one of those scenes were from my first account (Diamond level, 99th percentile, 2250 DBR). KDA and win rate is low on my first account because I always fool around with refresher orb and do not care about counter picks.
I have unbelievable win rate and kda on invoker on this permanent account because I was super tryhard for 102 games with invoker. However, I found it supremely stressful like work so I gave up.
BTW, try to stay on topic. The Luna replay was the only legit and good one submitted so far. No exploits please.
talking about Beesa?
Check this --> http://dotabuff.com/matches/150310889
hmm apparently Vaikiss wanted to play for EE, but didn't make the cut.
Swiftending you sell yourself short. You need to realize that you being able to do something does not make it easy. What you can do is actually impossible for nearly everyone.
You are correct that what you can do under pressure is more meaningful. But getting perfect cs with free farm is also beyond the abilities of nearly everyone...even many current pro carry players. Can you do it? Think about it. Do you have a game where you got the first 80 cs without missing one? Anyone who can actually do that should consider becoming a pro player.
that was a real game and I whooped ass
if you have uncontested freefarm where no-one interrupts you for 10 minutes it's easy as fuck to get the full cs as long as you have a stout, regen and a qb or an aoe hero (like storm).
what happens in pubs is pretty irrelevant anyhow but if some non-pro player got asked to play in KP right now i'm pretty sure he'd accept without a second thought unless he really hated EE and/or CWM so much that it'd be impossible to play on same team. fact is that KP is one of the best western teams right now and they've proved it in recent tournies (at least the one's they ahven't been kicked out of LMAO)
Your extremely narrow minded view of the possible reasons someone might not accept a position on a pro team makes you look foolish DMX.
You have the talent to get 10 cs/min games...but perfect is another level. Do you really think you are that good? You say its "easy"...have you ever done it? I bet you have not. But Beesa has.
Dotabuff Plus used to record the top 80 performances of the week for each hero. Sadly this was frozen 5 months ago when DBR died. But you can still see the records from that final week. NO ONE got 80 cs at 10 min. Many of these nearly 3,000 top rated games I surveyed for this list were played on the verified accounts of pro carry players playing one of their signature carries.
In the top rated 80 games the record high cs at 10 min was
Alch 66
AM 69
BS 65
CK 65
BF 67 (clinkz)
Drow 70
FV 71
Gyro 74
Jugg 69
Kunka 70
LS 79 http://dotabuff.com/matches/107117083 so close! 2nd best was 65
LD 64
Luna 67
Lycan 71
Magnus 67
Medusa 64
Meeps 77 (plenty of jungle + lane by 10 min...still not 80)
Morph 61
Naga 62
NP 64
OD 65
PA 72
PL 73
SA 61
SF 73
SK 68
Sniper 61
Spectre 59
Storm 65 (Vaikiss on this highscore at 54! very good...but not 80)
Sven 72
Tiny 70
Troll 75
Viper 66
Weaver 63
This represents the best games of the highest ranked players of these heroes that week. Nearly 3000 games and not even one got 80 cs by 10 min. Reality check. It is nearly impossible to do this and if you are one of the best farmers in the entire world who can get perfect farm...the game you do it you are likely to be the only one in the world that week who has done it.
I have only seen 3 pro players ever hit the first 80 cs without missing. Loda, Black, and Burning and I've only seen them each do it one time. If you think it is "easy" you are just naïve, unaware of how many cs you actually miss. Reality is less than 0.5% of the best games by the best carries even get 70+.
enigma mid
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6290/e192.jpg
91 lasthit in 10 mins as luna in freefarm lane didin't even tryed mostly autoattacking while eating
can i be professional player now LOL ?
gl as pro Vaikiss
gg Vaikiss`742 thread closed
lol, nice cheats Vaikiss... farming more cs than spawns makes it a bit obvious don't you think though?
Try with shadow fiend without necromastery.
last time i checked there was this thing called jungle and anyone who knows atleast basics of this game knows that farming only lane is inefficient as fuck
NP man, when you try this in a real game, with real items, and a real skill build...without cheats, Come back and repost.
Jungle=cheats...?
ok.
A screenshot is not jungling. All we really see here is more cs than has spawned, a ton more gold than the lane produces in a real game. And items and a skill build that are for nothing but reaching a cs target...against literally no players, no lane control even took a free tower. This is so far from reality its a joke.
IF this was a serious attempt to show his cs skills, and I can't see how it was, its extremely sloppy. Vaikiss is really very good at lasthitting. I'm sure he can put up some impressive stats in a real game.
I can go 76 cs at minute 10 if I have 50 ping
PS, ping usually 120+ here
heres my luna tell me how great I am http://dotabuff.com/matches/211850042
That's pretty good KryMoFo. It looks like Luna is your best farming hero now.
76 cs at 10 min is excellent. Now consider how that compares to the farm rate of the Medusa ancient strat.
Medusa gets a little higher gpm on the ancients than perfect or near perfect farm in the lane...So could lanes be set up to protect ancient farm and still get a decent amount of farm and xp out of the lane? Is ancient farming really so much harder to protect than a regular free farm lane for the carry?
What if you put heroes that had the power to push out lanes to keep pressure on towers so rotation to stop the ancient farming was too expensive?
Suppose you have DS offlane, Puck or QoP mid, enchantres or chen in the jungle and Juggernaut soloing safelane. I think a set up like that could support the lanes and have the flexibility to push or rotate to fight at the ancients if a strong effort to contest it was made. With appropriate warding this could lead to a very strong mid-game push with the option of a super farmed Medusa late as a fall back. Overall that is going to take in a lot more gold and xp than the regular tri-lane setup.
medusa can handle lane dont need ancients spam snake and get kills nothing hard
Medusa farm safe lane, and I haven't tried it, but SD could probably triple stack on the radiant side (x2 medium and x1 hard, but can definitely do at least x2 medium camps), easiest CS of your life. Issues are of course an offensive tri-lane screwing dusa's farm (and life), as well as giving xp to the enemy offlane hero (solo) when you are stacking instead of pulling/double pulling, although you could probably pull for the first few minutes and then stack the camps for medusa later on.
The idea is that the regular lane xp, and some of the lasthits will still be there for another hero...while the ancient farm is better than perfect cs and xp and is all bonus above the regular amount you get from your lanes.
The question is how does that compare to the farm and xp you would get from supports sharing jungle pulls and how easy is it to secure in comparison.
----------------------------------------------------------------
2 medium camps, if you get every spawn on both would be 204 gpm average and 412 xpm...that's divided between the supports.
wait a min...Medusa must have got a lot from the mid-lane too in that replay or really lucky on the spawns...
Average from the ancients is 265 gpm and 355 xpm. So its equal to solo lane xp, but only as good as last hitting 3 creeps per wave. Still its a lot more than 2 medium camps...
So if you can get 6 cs/min of the lane farm from say...the juggernaut. And one jungle support still farms 2 camps/min...the advantage from going ancients to the team is about 186 gpm and 355 xpm higher. By 6 min your team would have a 1K gold advantage and maybe 2 levels ahead on your supports over the other team who defensively tri-laned and pulled to camps.
But can this set up deal with an aggressive tri-lane well? That's harder to see.
lol when ur playing for example antimage u get ur battlefury 10-20 min then u sweep out the lane go for neutrals and go to other lane or back to same lane when its pushed back i did basicly same principe with luna ofc i could have went tranquils and achieved same considering that i was eating and just wanted to try how much il get in 10 mins i didin't bothered to do anything else
also i don't see why midas + dominator is unrealistic prettysure loda did this couple times month or so ago
question, why can`t I report relentless?
You can't report me because there is not a corrupt manual review to the report system.
Vaikiss if you can get 5600 networth on Luna by 10 min doing that...then go do it, win games with your new super powerful farming strat, break all the records. If you can...then do it. You have a team, they can protect your farm for it. If its real. Then use this marvelous plan in game and show you can really execute it. No one cares whether you were eating or trying or using one hand...none of that can be proved any more than you can prove you didn't just start the game with HoM and spawn extra creeps.
Since none of top 3,000 carry games got anywhere near that mark....guess what. Its not going to work in a real game.
You know in dota 1 I did actually get more gpm than that on Luna at 10 min. I had manta style...but I was solo mid, took 2 towers, and had 8 kills.
The question is can you get perfect cs in a real game...and your screenshot does nothing to indicate you can.
u said that 80 cs in 10 minutes = perfect
i did 91 in 10 minutes thats way above perfect
i bought my own courier , upgraded it thats like full wraith band or half threads gold
first attempt, luna 97 cs @ 10 minutes (starting 603 gold)
also im pretty sure its been done before a lot of times, ive seen plenty of DS players in particular easily get around 90-100 CS @ 10 minute mark
grats, you are probably the best player in the world now according to @Relentless
This is about lasthitting, Jerry. Vaikiss is being deliberately obtuse because he can't compare to Beesa's talent and it makes him angry because he is a narcissist. So he is trying to come up with various ways to change the focus from his weaker performance to a gimmick....
well what if my support Kotl stacked up 6 camps and got them all low and I added in another 20 cs from the jungle...blah, blah, blah
You can't hide the fact that you can't do it with these obfuscations. Maybe Jerry can get perfect cs, maybe karake can....maybe Vaikiss can and just chooses to fail in all his real games. But the fact is it's extremely difficult and you can't fake your way into pretending you are as good as the best in the world. Just because you don't like the fact that its not you...its still true. Your refusal to respect superior players out of spite and envy is not attractive.
holy fuck ! i didnt know we have soo many players with huge potential to become a pro
yep, @Relentless should be the manager for the dotabuff dota2 team. he could find the best farmers here on dotabuff and go win TI4
hopefully EG or Dignitas can hire him as talent scout
As dota 2 becomes more organized such things will become more common knowledge. In the meantime I provided a nice dose of reality for anyone who chose to listen and gain a real perspective on what is good farm and what is amazing farm.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/67706461
TI4 here I come!!1!1!11
what you don't understand is that you won't get 80+ cs by 10 minutes of lanefarming when the lane is slightly contested
so it doesn't matter if it's a singleplayer game or not
you don't understand at all relentless, it's easy as fuck if you're against empty lane. you just tank the creeps and never let them get to the tower if you know you ain't gonna get ganked. with hero like storm you just stand there taking beating and either crow and spam remnant or buy enough regen. with qb/stout it might be slightly harder since you need to at least lasthit the creeps instead of just nuking them when they get low enough but still, it's simple for someone who's played the game long enough. the problem's that in most pubs you don't have an empty lane to farm. that's why in the DB stats you found there aren't any "perfect" scores (or i'd like to assume this is the reason). people also play way more lax in pubs in general. farming creeps when you're on the winning team against an empty lane is easy as fuck feat. what separates great carry players from good ones is when they can get amazing farm while their team is getting raped.
CS = last hits+denies. not last hits only.
"Abbreviation for Creep Score. This refers to the amount of last hits and denies a player has." - Dota 2 wiki.