fyi im not following much what the wannabe chinese guy is saying @blunt
and that chat with XnumbreXXSmth --> i wrote it very clearly, not my fault you cant understand.
I wans't expecting anything more, you just can't be helped, I do offered arguments in every post, you just deny everything and catch what fancies you (the truth :') ) , stop claiming you're 6k with a smurf account, seriously, it's embarassing just to make another account being a 6k player, peace out.
they do, just read them sloooowly if the sentence comes out as heavy... ill edit it so that it'll be easier to understand.
Please do.
@ asian dude:
Sorry, i will contact valve and tell them to edit my mmr to 2k. Also this is an abandoned smurf and has never played ranked before, so ofc this acc has no ranked MMR as of today.
Is this an attempt to make me add you and show my mmr so you can be on my friendslist?
@YNIT ЛУЧШИЙ ИГРОК
Because the little impact of my fists would crack all the bones of his skinny body. (ok srsly, I could break his arm with one punch)
confirmed crazy OP build, at least for lower brackets. I never played jugg, watched some of his replays and tried it out for myself.... 5 wins in a row and counting lol. There's more to it than just the item progressions, you gotta watch a couple of his replays, how he jungles, his mentality.... Basically he goes for a HARDCORE farming monster jugger that occasionally rolls people he comes across until he is carried as fuck lol
^
it is really a "crazy farming build", it is just that a high agi hero like jugg can farm jungle without losing significant health once he gets his yasha...
You are basically buying several mid tier tiems instead of the expensive late game items.
Yes you are farming quickly, but its not like he is getting a battefury or something like that. All the items you get are mid tier fighting items. The trick is you want to fight when your omni is off cooldown.
Edit: also that is something all the new jugg item builds that are popular basically share. The idea is to go for multiple mid tier items and fight with omni. Loda is in a gamre right now with MoM/Sange/Basher which i assume will turn into an abyssal blade, as a 2 core. He was able to solo rosh etc. He focused some points early in blade fury while laning, but didn't finish it and maxed blade dance first.
new jugg is all about timing around ulti and rosh and maximizing right click.
Well the thing I find about this build, is that he farms up fast, but more importantly... this build is centred around him hitting like a fucking MACK TRUCK instead of a build just focused on his ult, which is primarily what people go for.
i mean, all you have to do to "not focus on his ulti" is not get aghs.
Jugg hits like a truck because the 6 agi boost, focusing stats early, and itemization. The effects of mass agi are really good for him now that he starts off with 6 extra agi. It was good before, but players were focusing things like mylonir and such more. Now its all about SY or manta, MoM, diffusal butterfly etc.
for me i am most surprised how well treads worked. SY with shadowblade and diffusal really made it more viable. I remember trying it in the past since i used them on swiftblade in HoN.
Overall though, Juggs changes have made him evolve into a much more multifaceted hero. A powerful jack of all trades carry that has multiple builds open to him.
This is the unedited part btw blunt
""you emphasized on it being all about burst when its equally inspection item.
strange movements. And this goes in advanced dota which i hope you even take into account. In every game i study whenever i can the behavior of the players, aggresive or not and how willing they are of taking risks or why they initiate or back away. They go on you only if they can kill you AND have someone close, they are willing to take the risk and get the job done ALONE before any tp arrival, etc. Counter-initiation on an incoming enemy lothar or instant b followed by I GOT people close so i can risk it noticeable by doing a weird circle or moving horizontally instead of vertically away from the incoming threat. Behavior while farming, BEST moment to initiate on and how they usually farm, 1 left 2 right for lasthit+ cancel animation or nuke skill usage!! A deviation from that is considered a STRANGE MOVEMENT and therefore changes the approach of MY GANK. Should i hint at him knowing i know he knows about me by baking a fake back? then followed by going forth while he tries to counter-initiate me? Remember lothars last a couple of seconds so i can have that time left to assess the situation. Should i just fake go at him, knowing i can bait a teamfight implying im alone and defenseless while the whole enemy team counterinitiates on me, clumps up and we fuck them all around? should i MOVE to the side implying me waiting for reinforcements and better positioning making him doubt his favorable position in CASE im alone???, etc. srsly use your fucking brain this is not fucking lol where you go pewpew oh pew pew oh im dead i respawn have 10 more items lets attackground pewpew oh we won gg FUCKING RETARD."
I'm really glad you guys are having fun and success with the build.. obviously id like to point out its Keeper_OfTheForest's build as to not take anything away from him. (It'd be nice to see him comment on this tbh lol) http://www.dotabuff.com/players/111757879
So far I've climbed 547 MMR in around 4 days including deductions for losses. Had 2 shitty games earlier one being a solo queue i couldnt carry because of the feed and another in party where my stack had to abandon (friend had a driving lesson sadly) So its still going strong.
Kinda nice seeing all the debate over item builds and stats...... Kinda regret making this thread through because you guys seem to have a mini flame war going on.
Maybe in a months time we'll see a reddit "how i climbed 1000-1500 MMR spamming jug AMA" lol joke.
Sylvand stout>Qblade>slipper>poormans>RoAquila>Treads>S&Y(smoke rosh if you want 2 points in heal)>shadowblade>diffusal>skadi>butterfly/mkb/etc sometimes i go MKB then skadi depends really.
Some people love aghs but personally I'd rather have a slot for another big item.... shorter cooldown and more jumps is nice but i dunno late game i feel asthough you shouldn't depend on the ultimate as much. One bullshit jump and you might end up only getting half your jumps off.... kinda why i prefer an item like MKB or something in its place.
"Kinda nice seeing all the debate over item builds and stats...... Kinda regret making this thread through because you guys seem to have a mini flame war going on."
every DB post with more than a page of posts turns into a flame war.
And jugger is probably one of the most versatile heroes for itemization. Dude can build almost anything.
Btw, if you ever feel the chance, try building orchid on him if your opponents can escape omni slash with invis or blink like invoker. It gives the regen of BF (but now jug farms super fast without needing cleave), attack speed and damage, and you can use the Silence during omni if you want. It will silence and increase omni slash damage on single target by 30%.
If you catch out a hard to kill target with your omni, the omni damage is pretty much all in 5 seconds, so it really adds alot of damage to your ulti while silencing.
Aghs is very situational. I'm liking it a lot less these days.
got another win. My mid zues was good but my supports were just bad, and doing the whole "jugg sucks" on mic after I got driven out of my lane and lost tower to a mag that rotated with arcanes lvl 6 from offlane and a winrunner, while the support AA sat at tower doing nothing, wondering why i couldn't last hit in lane.
Just ignored it, went jungle for a bit, got some omni kills in... team was still totally on a different page than me so i just split push and came in for omni slashes. "omg this jug only knows how to farm"... yea well I solo roshed and put up 6.4k tower damage, and went 7/0/8 cause i only showed up for the fights i knew i could omni in.
Isn't that basically how carries should work anyway? They farm and only going into team fights where they can actually contribute to the team? I have been playing jugg recently and I would almost always go into a team fight late (sometimes not at all because I'm split pushing). Luckily, in the few times I have played jugg, no one has flamed me for it (they usually flame another carry lol)
On a side note I would love Mattrice to comment on his jugg play style and comment and compare to his jungling tb build. I remember him mentioning somewhere that this jungling jugg is better than jungling tb.
Jungling jug is too greedy imo. Weakens the lanes too much in solo games.. obviously matrice has had great success with jungling heros but i feel it's risky.
I guess if you pic jug and someone last picks another carry then i guess its a valid option. That or you're in a stack and fine with having slightly weaker lanes.
As long as you have a strong offlaner, a jungle jugg is awesome on dire side with the medium camp quelling blade tree trick. Do 2 small camps at 30 seconds and 1 minute, then just farm up on the medium camp with creeps hitting you 1 at a time with tree blocks.
Probably the most effecient jungler, makes way more sense than axe jungle or bloodseeker, and scrubs do that all the time lol
Pubs are greedy in general anyway, and usually, especially in lower mmr, enemies are unable to capitalize on a weak laning phase. What jungle jugg allows is that you are able to give your supports more farm (while securing yourself very good farm I mean, how often do supports rotate to the jungle to stop the jungler anyway. And even if that happens, just go back to the lane to farm) which allows your team to be stronger in the mid game where you'll be split pushing. It's pretty good imo.
been going well with it, but i'm finding that the items are really all about timings.
In almost all my games, once I get shadowblade, If i use it right I will sneak into a team fight and kill lots of people, and come out of it with 2000 gold. I feel like the diffusal is really good in some situations, but in others its just for the damage and timing. Depends on the match.
Same thing goes for the shadowblade... the items aren't just good because of what they do, but their price level corresponds well to timing fights and roshan.
As for my skill build, i'm finding that I am gravitating towers 1/1/1 and then stats. I don't want to be going for blade fury at all early, but often my team mates see jugg and just assume they will first blood level 1 with my. Last game a shitty veno lane with me. Dude missed the first 4 gales... was awful. But i held my point and ending up getting spin at one because he was playing around me.
but yea... 0/1/1 + stats into omni, blade fury, stats.... and then i sorta just wing it when i want to be putting more points into crit or healing ward. I focusing healing ward though.
its almost like the ... guy doesn't know how to look at skill levels for games over time.
@ Dorkly.
So when you go treads rather than phase, its helpful to get the extra SY move speed, as well as blink or shadowblade i think. SB gives stats with the cost, and considering you are a perpetual right click melee hero with this build it seems like a really good choice. good for initiation, escape and chasing. sneaking behind the enemy for an omni slash, or for ducking out of danger after split pushing with ward.
I think the timing of it is really good too.
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fyi im not following much what the wannabe chinese guy is saying @blunt
and that chat with XnumbreXXSmth --> i wrote it very clearly, not my fault you cant understand.
:closes topic:
@YNIT ЛУЧШИЙ ИГРОК
I don't hit children. Also traviling to asia to hit a child really is no solution.
@benao
WHAT? According to 7 people on my friendslist your english is one of the worst shit they have ever read.
Just because you write random words and they happen to be english words, doesn't mean you wrote something clearly, they have to make sense together.
they do, just read them sloooowly if the sentence comes out as heavy... ill edit it so that it'll be easier to understand.
@LuckyNumberXI Who are you
I wans't expecting anything more, you just can't be helped, I do offered arguments in every post, you just deny everything and catch what fancies you (the truth :') ) , stop claiming you're 6k with a smurf account, seriously, it's embarassing just to make another account being a 6k player, peace out.
@Benao
they do, just read them sloooowly if the sentence comes out as heavy... ill edit it so that it'll be easier to understand.
Please do.
@ asian dude:
Sorry, i will contact valve and tell them to edit my mmr to 2k. Also this is an abandoned smurf and has never played ranked before, so ofc this acc has no ranked MMR as of today.
Is this an attempt to make me add you and show my mmr so you can be on my friendslist?
@YNIT ЛУЧШИЙ ИГРОК
Because the little impact of my fists would crack all the bones of his skinny body. (ok srsly, I could break his arm with one punch)
thx 4 the insights guys writing this all down
Oh boy, the child is showing some teeth, must be a mutated human. Either that or the son of superman.
会われないねえええ、がいこくひと。ｗｗｗｗｗｗｗｗｗｗｗｗ
tried your build. Worked like a charm.
Treads were excellent with the SY. Didnt expect it to be enough speed but with shadowblade and the diff blade it was great.
didn't come close to running out of charges and their ghost scepters didnt do shit.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1150008005
@ weird 2k japanese guy.
Does that mean you are hercules?
also i guess we are foreigners in your view. Very needed to point that out.
confirmed crazy OP build, at least for lower brackets. I never played jugg, watched some of his replays and tried it out for myself.... 5 wins in a row and counting lol. There's more to it than just the item progressions, you gotta watch a couple of his replays, how he jungles, his mentality.... Basically he goes for a HARDCORE farming monster jugger that occasionally rolls people he comes across until he is carried as fuck lol
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/12272109/matches
around 3200 mmr
^
it is really a "crazy farming build", it is just that a high agi hero like jugg can farm jungle without losing significant health once he gets his yasha...
You are basically buying several mid tier tiems instead of the expensive late game items.
Yes you are farming quickly, but its not like he is getting a battefury or something like that. All the items you get are mid tier fighting items. The trick is you want to fight when your omni is off cooldown.
Edit: also that is something all the new jugg item builds that are popular basically share. The idea is to go for multiple mid tier items and fight with omni. Loda is in a gamre right now with MoM/Sange/Basher which i assume will turn into an abyssal blade, as a 2 core. He was able to solo rosh etc. He focused some points early in blade fury while laning, but didn't finish it and maxed blade dance first.
new jugg is all about timing around ulti and rosh and maximizing right click.
Well the thing I find about this build, is that he farms up fast, but more importantly... this build is centred around him hitting like a fucking MACK TRUCK instead of a build just focused on his ult, which is primarily what people go for.
i mean, all you have to do to "not focus on his ulti" is not get aghs.
Jugg hits like a truck because the 6 agi boost, focusing stats early, and itemization. The effects of mass agi are really good for him now that he starts off with 6 extra agi. It was good before, but players were focusing things like mylonir and such more. Now its all about SY or manta, MoM, diffusal butterfly etc.
for me i am most surprised how well treads worked. SY with shadowblade and diffusal really made it more viable. I remember trying it in the past since i used them on swiftblade in HoN.
Overall though, Juggs changes have made him evolve into a much more multifaceted hero. A powerful jack of all trades carry that has multiple builds open to him.
This is the unedited part btw blunt
""you emphasized on it being all about burst when its equally inspection item.
strange movements. And this goes in advanced dota which i hope you even take into account. In every game i study whenever i can the behavior of the players, aggresive or not and how willing they are of taking risks or why they initiate or back away. They go on you only if they can kill you AND have someone close, they are willing to take the risk and get the job done ALONE before any tp arrival, etc. Counter-initiation on an incoming enemy lothar or instant b followed by I GOT people close so i can risk it noticeable by doing a weird circle or moving horizontally instead of vertically away from the incoming threat. Behavior while farming, BEST moment to initiate on and how they usually farm, 1 left 2 right for lasthit+ cancel animation or nuke skill usage!! A deviation from that is considered a STRANGE MOVEMENT and therefore changes the approach of MY GANK. Should i hint at him knowing i know he knows about me by baking a fake back? then followed by going forth while he tries to counter-initiate me? Remember lothars last a couple of seconds so i can have that time left to assess the situation. Should i just fake go at him, knowing i can bait a teamfight implying im alone and defenseless while the whole enemy team counterinitiates on me, clumps up and we fuck them all around? should i MOVE to the side implying me waiting for reinforcements and better positioning making him doubt his favorable position in CASE im alone???, etc. srsly use your fucking brain this is not fucking lol where you go pewpew oh pew pew oh im dead i respawn have 10 more items lets attackground pewpew oh we won gg FUCKING RETARD."
I haven't had a chance to watch replays for the build yet, but what is the build order item wise?
Also, is aghs not a good item for jugg outside of potato tier or is it just situational based on the other heroes?
I'm really glad you guys are having fun and success with the build.. obviously id like to point out its Keeper_OfTheForest's build as to not take anything away from him. (It'd be nice to see him comment on this tbh lol) http://www.dotabuff.com/players/111757879
So far I've climbed 547 MMR in around 4 days including deductions for losses. Had 2 shitty games earlier one being a solo queue i couldnt carry because of the feed and another in party where my stack had to abandon (friend had a driving lesson sadly) So its still going strong.
Kinda nice seeing all the debate over item builds and stats...... Kinda regret making this thread through because you guys seem to have a mini flame war going on.
Maybe in a months time we'll see a reddit "how i climbed 1000-1500 MMR spamming jug AMA" lol joke.
Sylvand stout>Qblade>slipper>poormans>RoAquila>Treads>S&Y(smoke rosh if you want 2 points in heal)>shadowblade>diffusal>skadi>butterfly/mkb/etc sometimes i go MKB then skadi depends really.
Some people love aghs but personally I'd rather have a slot for another big item.... shorter cooldown and more jumps is nice but i dunno late game i feel asthough you shouldn't depend on the ultimate as much. One bullshit jump and you might end up only getting half your jumps off.... kinda why i prefer an item like MKB or something in its place.
thats why you're
stupidnaive? ^there are already several reddit threads about jugger giving free mmr regardless of your super imba op build.
"Kinda nice seeing all the debate over item builds and stats...... Kinda regret making this thread through because you guys seem to have a mini flame war going on."
every DB post with more than a page of posts turns into a flame war.
And jugger is probably one of the most versatile heroes for itemization. Dude can build almost anything.
Btw, if you ever feel the chance, try building orchid on him if your opponents can escape omni slash with invis or blink like invoker. It gives the regen of BF (but now jug farms super fast without needing cleave), attack speed and damage, and you can use the Silence during omni if you want. It will silence and increase omni slash damage on single target by 30%.
If you catch out a hard to kill target with your omni, the omni damage is pretty much all in 5 seconds, so it really adds alot of damage to your ulti while silencing.
Aghs is very situational. I'm liking it a lot less these days.
Benao have you lost like 300mmr to jug or someshit? the amount of salt you post....
It was a JOKE.... fuck... even if i managed to climb to 7k (exaggeration) i still wouldnt make an AMA.
Actually just starting to think you're a troll. It'd make sense tbh.
@concede yea i had a game earlier i was almost tempted into building it playing against an ember. I may do it sometime thanks for the suggestion. :)
i haven't decided on a build on him and i started before the patch so my calculations just went gg :D. Anyways, sb is bad and i won't make it ^^
@benao
sb is good on jugg... you mentally upset bro... its ok sometimes ppl get mad
8 wins in a row with SB playing a similar style to the one posted here, and I've never played jugg before...... lmao, free mmr for sure
^ nice job man!
You know, sometimes i actually miss the drama of this forum
^ long time no see, lol
got another win. My mid zues was good but my supports were just bad, and doing the whole "jugg sucks" on mic after I got driven out of my lane and lost tower to a mag that rotated with arcanes lvl 6 from offlane and a winrunner, while the support AA sat at tower doing nothing, wondering why i couldn't last hit in lane.
Just ignored it, went jungle for a bit, got some omni kills in... team was still totally on a different page than me so i just split push and came in for omni slashes. "omg this jug only knows how to farm"... yea well I solo roshed and put up 6.4k tower damage, and went 7/0/8 cause i only showed up for the fights i knew i could omni in.
won easily.
Isn't that basically how carries should work anyway? They farm and only going into team fights where they can actually contribute to the team? I have been playing jugg recently and I would almost always go into a team fight late (sometimes not at all because I'm split pushing). Luckily, in the few times I have played jugg, no one has flamed me for it (they usually flame another carry lol)
treads > mom > manta > skaidi
spin > crit > ward then stats all the way til 9 or 10 then max crit and ward after 11
works really well for me
"omg this jug only knows how to farm"
why are they even complaining lol, if people at 3.5k knew how to farm they wouldn't be at 3.5k
Hello dorkly
Best thread in a while. Good read guys.
On a side note I would love Mattrice to comment on his jugg play style and comment and compare to his jungling tb build. I remember him mentioning somewhere that this jungling jugg is better than jungling tb.
imo jungling jugg > carry jugg. Its a waste going carry rly.
Jungling jug is too greedy imo. Weakens the lanes too much in solo games.. obviously matrice has had great success with jungling heros but i feel it's risky.
I guess if you pic jug and someone last picks another carry then i guess its a valid option. That or you're in a stack and fine with having slightly weaker lanes.
stfuu normal skill
we all know what a jungler means, we don't need a fuckign definition of the implications in every fucking thread fucking shit
As long as you have a strong offlaner, a jungle jugg is awesome on dire side with the medium camp quelling blade tree trick. Do 2 small camps at 30 seconds and 1 minute, then just farm up on the medium camp with creeps hitting you 1 at a time with tree blocks.
Probably the most effecient jungler, makes way more sense than axe jungle or bloodseeker, and scrubs do that all the time lol
Pubs are greedy in general anyway, and usually, especially in lower mmr, enemies are unable to capitalize on a weak laning phase. What jungle jugg allows is that you are able to give your supports more farm (while securing yourself very good farm I mean, how often do supports rotate to the jungle to stop the jungler anyway. And even if that happens, just go back to the lane to farm) which allows your team to be stronger in the mid game where you'll be split pushing. It's pretty good imo.
How you guys doing ? rolf are you 5k already or still stuck on 4k trench ?
Played this a few times last night, was ridiculously fun.
damn dorkly. Your stats are looking good.
been going well with it, but i'm finding that the items are really all about timings.
In almost all my games, once I get shadowblade, If i use it right I will sneak into a team fight and kill lots of people, and come out of it with 2000 gold. I feel like the diffusal is really good in some situations, but in others its just for the damage and timing. Depends on the match.
Same thing goes for the shadowblade... the items aren't just good because of what they do, but their price level corresponds well to timing fights and roshan.
As for my skill build, i'm finding that I am gravitating towers 1/1/1 and then stats. I don't want to be going for blade fury at all early, but often my team mates see jugg and just assume they will first blood level 1 with my. Last game a shitty veno lane with me. Dude missed the first 4 gales... was awful. But i held my point and ending up getting spin at one because he was playing around me.
but yea... 0/1/1 + stats into omni, blade fury, stats.... and then i sorta just wing it when i want to be putting more points into crit or healing ward. I focusing healing ward though.
@Concede
Its SB really necessary ? I think if you swap SB with any other item the results would be equally good or probably better.
"How you guys doing ? rolf are you 5k already or still stuck on 4k trench ? "
How are u doing? still plain out 3k or did u manage to get to 3.7k?
I actually think my mmr is like 2k now, well at least i am playing like 2k anyway.
its almost like the ... guy doesn't know how to look at skill levels for games over time.
@ Dorkly.
So when you go treads rather than phase, its helpful to get the extra SY move speed, as well as blink or shadowblade i think. SB gives stats with the cost, and considering you are a perpetual right click melee hero with this build it seems like a really good choice. good for initiation, escape and chasing. sneaking behind the enemy for an omni slash, or for ducking out of danger after split pushing with ward.
I think the timing of it is really good too.