General DiscussionSven, OP hero?

i agree on some points but you are exaggerating.

Stom Hammer has same stun duration on all levels which allows you to leave it at level 1 which I think is a bit stupid and the duration should scale.
Sven has some of the best base stats at level 1 apart from his movement speed which makes him very easy to lane. He has armor, damage, stun, some movement speed buff AND a very good farming mechanism all from his skill. This means he only needs a mobility item, bkb and one small dps item like Echo Sabre or S&Y. These items can be farmed at an insane speed. I agree on your point that he is very hard to shut down. Also kiting Sven isn't that easy when he just blink stuns you and double hit kills you with Echo Sabre. What also happens is that even if your carry has more items than Sven (which is unlikely because Sven farms insanely fast), he can still own you because he only needs 4 small items (HoD, BKB, Blink, Echo Sabre) to instakill everyone.
To conclude my points, Sven is the hero I ban every game and not Slark.

the hero is retarded because of warcry
+20 armor, +12% ms, with area effect and 4 sec downtime?
with this shit he's invulnerable to physical damage, like 35 armor on a str hero with no armor items

imo, remove/nerf warcry and he's fine
like 100 mana/20 sec cd

Fuck your opinion though, Sven's fine. If he gets nerfed, it can be just slightly, no need to remove an entire skill that makes him unique and replace it with a new shit uninspired reworked one.

Anyone forgetting why sven isn't op? Remember RTZ? Hit sprout and presto, can't do nothing.

I eat svens for bfast :]

Any magic damage hero can actually rape sven and lion can kite him really hardcore if the team is shiet and not watch out for sven gank that shitstain as much as possible.
Don't mind my skill bracket listen my game knowledge

armor dont mean shit to techies

Actually, Techies' mines are physical and magical, therefore armor still affects the mines' damage.

Nerf warcry - increase cd and mana cost so sven cant spam this shit and the hero will be fine

lol sprout, sven can just pick up a quelling blade and if he wants to he can build it into bfury for 101% cleave damage.

Nerfing Warcry, his starting Stength and Strength Gain should probably do the trick.

yea nerfing warcry should be enough to balance sven.

I'd Still like the stun duration to scale. Maybe 1.6/1.8/2/2.2 ? Then getting one value point in stun would actually be a bit of a sacrifice.

His winrate suggests that he is not that OP. Perhaps u are missing something

delete your comment maverick osfrog must not see that!

no

pick viper ez mode
spectre and nightstalker fucks him
lifestealer anti tank hero can dudge stun
qop so much nuke....
even crystal maiden is strong aganist sven

LoL, Sven is hard to kite ? Sven is one of the easiest carryes that you can kite, besides that stun he has no lock down potential, he is no a natural slow or bash items carrier (diffusal, skady, basher, abysal...), he has the attack speed of a snail (since mom is out of the meta), so he does not need a nerf at all IMO.

Sven is fine. You're actually the first person I've ever seen complaining about his aghs. Who even buys it?

Sven isn't that hard to kite. The only probem thought is to be able to kite him instantly or to be able to kite him long enough for him to die. Sven can deal over a 1000+ damage with Echo Sabre - which is a core item on Sven this patch. With Blink Dagger, it is almost guaranteed for Sven to get a few hits off. And as I said, that's over a 1000+ damage in a second and his stun lasts for 2 seconds. Don't forget his cleave too. Sven is also tanky because of War Cry. Having 20 bonus armor with a very small down time is just ridiculous. That's 2 times the armor that of a Assault Cuirass. In the end, you may end up kiting the Sven, but he isn't the only hero in the enemy team you have to worry about. Congrats, you wasted all your spells in a small amount of time to kite a Sven. He can buyback instantly or his teammates can just wipe you.

alll of heros abilities are better than items it's not just for sven. it dosn't make him op
for exmple: blink 5 cd on am but 12 cd on blink, diso 7 armor and slardar ulti way more than that
and nobody buys echo sabre on sven, that's not a thing.

And about his Aghs, I think it's more of a buff on Rubick. It is still possible however for a Sven to get the Aghs Upgrade because of an Alchemist. The item is very underrated. If your team has many carries - typical pub picks (this still includes most Very High MMR pubs too) - imagine 2-3 carries with a "triple damage rune". And as I said, it's underrated. If God's Strength and his Aghs uprade doesn't get nerfed, Sven with Aghs is about to enter the meta in the future.

he's so weak without his ultimate and so mana starved
item depandent. no he's not op at all

@Zaywop Most of hero abilities are better than items. But with Sven, his spells are just all way better (2-3X) to that of it's item counterparts.

And nobody buys Echo Sabre on Sven? That doesn't explain why it is the 3rd most bought item excluding boots on Sven. And this doesn't even include Sven being able to sell Echo Sapre and replacing it with Assault Cuirass in the late game.

Just use slark

@Zaywop You rarely get mana starved with Sven in the late game. Maybe in the mid game, but not often. And it's not likely for Sven to get 2 Storm Hammers off in a fight because he will either be dying or just bursting the enemy team.

@Zaywop All carries are item dependent. But what makes Sven unique is that Sven is able to deal so much damage with so little items. And it's not likely for Sven to be outfarmed because of his cleave.

yea he's wicked sick

And take a look at Sven's item win rate. Get fat = 75% chance to win. And how hard is it to get fat when you have cleave.

contest him early

I would like God's strength effect to be purgable :). That should be enough.
According to dotabuff Sven has overall 54,81% WR while being 8th most picked hero ( wr peaking in 2-3k above 57%, lowest wr in 5k+ but still above 50%). That said, Sven has around 75% wr with daedalus and satanic = Sven can actually take advantage of his great farming potencial! So numbers say that Sven in fact is bit imbalanced.
I think introducing of echo sabre made his early-mid game pretty terryfying bcuz Sven now just needs echo, blink and domi to deal tremendous amount of dmg with possible instant kill on one of enemies with blink stun echo sabre proc (while having ulti on) pair it with something like vacuum... (even people in 1k can combo vacuum with storm hammer).

I thought that Sven would be one of the most contested carries in Manila but all teams seem to prioritise LifeStealer over Sven.

warcry is already purgeable
and sven without god's strength does absolutely nothing

everytime some faces some counter pick to his favourite heros, he claims "... is op, pls nerf". So boring. Just look at those advantages of drow or windranger versus sven http://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/sven/matchups?date=week

Need warcry to 20s at all lvls.

Make it give less armor

Not all melee carries are kited as easy as Sven . Sven looks op in theory but not nearly as strong in practice . Good hero though .

"Kite Sven - You can basically kite all melee heroes so this does not count."

lol so when the clear answer is pick hero counters and you say those counters don't count, I don't know what you are looking for.

Tornado emp icewall cold snap deafening blast

BKB is an item

nerf warcry and make his stun scale and i'm fine

The only thing that puts Sven over the top is that you don't need to lv his stun past lv 1 and echo saber

Lion is op as well them, stun lvl 1 better than abyssal blade, hex lvl 1 better than shep stick, mana drain lvl1 better than difusal, and his ult is better than dagon.

The only thing thats slighty wrong is that you have literally 0 reason to level the stun, maybe give the duration some scaling, but otherwise hes just fine.

@zaywop could you stop stating your opinion like facts please? Because you're clueless

"nobody buys echo sabre on sven" have you watched even 1 sven game in 5k+ since 6.87?

Super strong, but very kiteable if you don't get many kills with your initiation.

@MingLee 100% agree with u. He always comments like a big dick of dota but he don't even know how echo sabre work with sven.
He would better stop ashaming himself.

The truth is echo sabre is fucking dogshit on sven.

kite sven, avoid him only way is to bait him to use his ulti then get the fuck out! dis Engage team fight then go back to sven when his ulti is gone and on cool down i prefer using rod of atos on sven as support :)

as support i always cry when i bait him to use his ulti and make it look like we are going to a team fight, and make him pop his red cherry
p.s please learn to bait sven without dying, i occasionally die when i bait him :(

oh also i want to add as disabler supports please make it a habbit to stop sven from reaching your carry. buy as much time to hold sven or make him pop his black queen bar, and zone him out using euls, atos, stuns, sleep halberd or show sven a nude pic of cm then your good

@pignoys thanks mate