yeah naix is way stronger, I think sven is just noob friendly since enemy teams never push to end game early no matter what advantage and always let sven back in game. It's like old spectre, game always goes 45 mins, spectre always gets items to win.
u dont leave q at 1 in most scenarios nowadays, 2 is prolly minimum now. makes him a stronger laner when hes very weak in lane against a lot of dual lanes, timbersaw, etc
if u just pick timber svens game is over, his ability to sustainably lane is rlly bad
hes not super easy to kite if u go echo because u blow up whatever hero u stun instantly, but if u go echo, u have prolly hod, echo, blink, still need bkb or u can get kited for days by stuns, defensive spells, disarms, etc.
hes super reliant on ancient stacks else he falls behind. hes similar to antimage in a lot of respects, he needs to be ahead of the other teams carry to have any shot at winning, and even then its hard. hes super easy to contest ancients against, though team comp matters a lot here along with vision
if you shut him down in lane the hero becomes useless for the rest of the game. he cant jungle without hod minimum and thats really slow, needs treads hod before he can jungle
its not hard to deal with him lategame either, his peak is at minute 25-35 when he has bkb, echo, blink, treads, maybe daedalus or something, hod
theres no specific hero counter to sven, its reliant on teamwork mostly, timbers the only one that really comes to mind as he completely rolls over sven in lane and for the rest of the game and is impossible for sven to burst if the sven loses lane
i dont think armlets especially good on him because it helps his strengths but not his weaknesses. it makes him do some more damage, more armor, more hp...but no lockdown, no attack speed, not a ton of burst. ive seen a lot of europeans do it (reso comes to mind) but it hasnt been very good from what ive seen. the major sell on armlet is the 10 armor u get from it, but sven doesnt even benefit from that. maybe its good vs slardar, thats about it.
theres a reason you used to see this hero in almost every 6k-7k game and now hes never seen. he sort of sucks.
The comparison to AM just isn't fair, if you delay AM's battlefury timing he is boned, Sven with the right team can still come in an 2 shot an entire team late. Like sven + tide setup or sven + puck setup. Sven's still pretty darned good late, the issue really is his bkb gets down to 5 seconds and then teams start to disarm/ghost scepter/force staff/chain stun him. That's like every melee carry though, lifestealer struggles from same issues but he can usually end the game sooner and rage is a lot better than having to build bkb.
if you delay ams bfury its because u shut down his laning stage or whatever. if u do the same thing to sven, the hero becomes useless. antimage can actually come back through splitpush and stuff. mana void gives the same kind of wombo combo teamfight ur talking about.
if uve never had a contested lane or a lane where the enemy mid ganks u u should experience that as sven and see how important item timings are on the hero. id say its a lot more important to be ahead on sven than any carry besides alchemist.
sven is garbage lategame because hes super easy to kite. the idea that ur somehow going to have this amazing wombo combo is dumb because its incredibly hard to pull off, and if ur assuming ur competent, assume the enemy team is competent to just spread out and stuff.
lifestealers significantly stronger than sven in laning stage. ill give u an example here. in dc vs newbee yesterday, hao was basically playing a 1v1 against moos faceless void after 3-4 minutes while chuan just afk pulled and went mid. moo wasnt able to get shit out of the lane because lifestealer autoattacks for like 120-140 in laning stage with blight feast and phase. sven hits for like 70 and doesnt have innate regen from feast or innate mobility from phase. if thats a sven disruptor lane, void gets 20 cs by minute 6 because void cant die to that lane. he cant even come to the wave vs lifestealer. its almost impossible to even kite lifestealer because of how fast the hero moves with phase+open wounds and because he has an innate blink in infest while having a spell that grants him magic immunity on a 50% uptime. if u dont have a bane or something, its impossible to kite lifestealer.
there was a game a few days ago that was like 7.5k average and resolutions sven did stuff sometimes but for the most part he just got kited and they lost to dityaras antimage even though sven hard counters antimage
Naix is stronger since he can be good even without great farm early on(which he most likely does get anyways). Just when he hits 6 he can use ult and bam his hp is back, killed stack and going to find some more action after cooldown is up to infest into his mate and get some ez kill. Sven is much more farm dependant tho. But still I like the hero. With the naix you can´t stack properly as Sven since you won´t build HoD. But everything depends on your team...it is a bit harder to win games solo...(which is good basically)
But I agree...I was struggling to find counter to Naix this meta..I lost almost every game against Naix and won with him almost everything(on the original I got more than one game tho). The hope is Terrorblade or something..but you need hell of a team coop to kill him. In most pubs you just win as Lifestealer...also Sven is OUT much longer and people actually know how to deal with him...the same comes with Slark. Naix is def. OP this patch, no doubt.
I personally have not played a game where sven has taken over the game and become unkillable. Mirana is a decent counter to sven because with her aghs she can deal over 1000 magic damage and leap allows her to get away if sven tries to jump on her.
But sniper sucks since you can easily gank him all the time - squishy, no escape...just you need to be farmed Sniper to counter Naix.... Terrorblade seems much more solid counter to Naix. So any other ideas how to counter Naix? :D
Lone druid. Pa. Ta. Enchantress. Naga....
Sniper is the easiet one. You just need positioning. Wich is simply as stand behind your pudge or bristle back and shoot him. Its so hard for naix to kill a good sniper cuz he simply needs to kill 4 armed hero to get his hands on sniper. Ofc he will be dead before reaching sniper
Storm Hammer - a 600-range 2-second AOE stun; basically a better Abyssal Blade that can be used at level 1
Ah non BKB piercing and dijointable stun is a better abyssal blade? You are a fucking retard.
Great Cleave - a 300-radius cleave that deals 66% cleave damage; basically a better Battle Fury that can be used at level 1
Cleave passive is better than +60 dmg, regen and the ability to deward, demine, cut trees and do more dmg to creeps to excel farm a lot? You are a fucking retard.
Warcry - an 8-second AOE buff that gives an extra 12% movement speed and high amounts of armor; basically a better combination of Assault Cuirass and Drums of Endurance that can be spammed with low cooldown and mana cost
AC with armor reduction, attackspeed, armor and aura + an item that gives attackspeed, movementspeed and stats are inferior to a skill that gives movementspeed and armor? You are a fucking retard.
God's Strength - gives 100%/150%/200% bonus damage to Sven, becomes an AOE buff when Aghanim's Scepter is purchased; basically a better Double Damage rune; I personally think that Aghanim's Scepter on Sven should be removed.
yeah because it's useless
He has decent movement speed, high armor, high HP, above average attack speed late game. He has the potential to farm really fast, deal 1000+ damage in a second and so much more.
So we are going to completely ignore the fact that he relies on farm, can be easily kited, shutdown and is ult dependant which makes him really shit in lategame.
Srsly, can you just shut your mouth and stop making retarded threads about heroes you clearly don't understand?
Pick Shadow Deamon, buy aghs or just pick beast master. BM is a good off lane too. What's so hard about stopping Sven?? He is an all around solid hero. Granted he become OP with echo saber but so does Pudge with aghs, Ather lens. So should we rework Pudge too??
My point is a good hero WILL BECOME OP with a good item. That doesn't mean he should be reworked or nerfed.
Also comparing AM to sven is as retarded as it gets. What the hell is wrong with you people?
Sven NEEDS farm in order to be effective. Sven has to join his team and has to dish out damage. If you don't have farm you fall behind and get rolled over. END OF STORY.
AM is COMPLETELY different. If you contest an AM lane with a stong duallane, am will simply splitpush and prolong the game until he has enough farm to join the fights and roll over the enemy. His mobility, natural high attackspeed due ti low bat and tankyness with spellshield makes it really easy for AM to splitpush and create space for himself. While sven players jerk around the map with underfarmed teammates so they can feed or try to smoke and hope on mistakes.
pick viper ez mode
spectre and nightstalker fucks him
lifestealer anti tank hero can dudge stun
qop so much nuke....
even crystal maiden is strong aganist sven
^
^
The entire post is so much shit
Zaywop 38 minutes ago
The truth is echo sabre is fucking dogshit on sven.
Says normal skill noob.
Sven is fine tho. Strongest this meta is Naix. EZ wins.
4head
yeah naix is way stronger, I think sven is just noob friendly since enemy teams never push to end game early no matter what advantage and always let sven back in game. It's like old spectre, game always goes 45 mins, spectre always gets items to win.
In normal skill ppl dont know how to deal with. Thats easy to stomp with him. Right timing is important. (Like when to pop ulti or pop bkb)
sven sucks
u dont leave q at 1 in most scenarios nowadays, 2 is prolly minimum now. makes him a stronger laner when hes very weak in lane against a lot of dual lanes, timbersaw, etc
if u just pick timber svens game is over, his ability to sustainably lane is rlly bad
hes not super easy to kite if u go echo because u blow up whatever hero u stun instantly, but if u go echo, u have prolly hod, echo, blink, still need bkb or u can get kited for days by stuns, defensive spells, disarms, etc.
hes super reliant on ancient stacks else he falls behind. hes similar to antimage in a lot of respects, he needs to be ahead of the other teams carry to have any shot at winning, and even then its hard. hes super easy to contest ancients against, though team comp matters a lot here along with vision
if you shut him down in lane the hero becomes useless for the rest of the game. he cant jungle without hod minimum and thats really slow, needs treads hod before he can jungle
its not hard to deal with him lategame either, his peak is at minute 25-35 when he has bkb, echo, blink, treads, maybe daedalus or something, hod
theres no specific hero counter to sven, its reliant on teamwork mostly, timbers the only one that really comes to mind as he completely rolls over sven in lane and for the rest of the game and is impossible for sven to burst if the sven loses lane
i dont think armlets especially good on him because it helps his strengths but not his weaknesses. it makes him do some more damage, more armor, more hp...but no lockdown, no attack speed, not a ton of burst. ive seen a lot of europeans do it (reso comes to mind) but it hasnt been very good from what ive seen. the major sell on armlet is the 10 armor u get from it, but sven doesnt even benefit from that. maybe its good vs slardar, thats about it.
theres a reason you used to see this hero in almost every 6k-7k game and now hes never seen. he sort of sucks.
The comparison to AM just isn't fair, if you delay AM's battlefury timing he is boned, Sven with the right team can still come in an 2 shot an entire team late. Like sven + tide setup or sven + puck setup. Sven's still pretty darned good late, the issue really is his bkb gets down to 5 seconds and then teams start to disarm/ghost scepter/force staff/chain stun him. That's like every melee carry though, lifestealer struggles from same issues but he can usually end the game sooner and rage is a lot better than having to build bkb.
if you delay ams bfury its because u shut down his laning stage or whatever. if u do the same thing to sven, the hero becomes useless. antimage can actually come back through splitpush and stuff. mana void gives the same kind of wombo combo teamfight ur talking about.
if uve never had a contested lane or a lane where the enemy mid ganks u u should experience that as sven and see how important item timings are on the hero. id say its a lot more important to be ahead on sven than any carry besides alchemist.
sven is garbage lategame because hes super easy to kite. the idea that ur somehow going to have this amazing wombo combo is dumb because its incredibly hard to pull off, and if ur assuming ur competent, assume the enemy team is competent to just spread out and stuff.
lifestealers significantly stronger than sven in laning stage. ill give u an example here. in dc vs newbee yesterday, hao was basically playing a 1v1 against moos faceless void after 3-4 minutes while chuan just afk pulled and went mid. moo wasnt able to get shit out of the lane because lifestealer autoattacks for like 120-140 in laning stage with blight feast and phase. sven hits for like 70 and doesnt have innate regen from feast or innate mobility from phase. if thats a sven disruptor lane, void gets 20 cs by minute 6 because void cant die to that lane. he cant even come to the wave vs lifestealer. its almost impossible to even kite lifestealer because of how fast the hero moves with phase+open wounds and because he has an innate blink in infest while having a spell that grants him magic immunity on a 50% uptime. if u dont have a bane or something, its impossible to kite lifestealer.
there was a game a few days ago that was like 7.5k average and resolutions sven did stuff sometimes but for the most part he just got kited and they lost to dityaras antimage even though sven hard counters antimage
Naix is stronger since he can be good even without great farm early on(which he most likely does get anyways). Just when he hits 6 he can use ult and bam his hp is back, killed stack and going to find some more action after cooldown is up to infest into his mate and get some ez kill. Sven is much more farm dependant tho. But still I like the hero. With the naix you can´t stack properly as Sven since you won´t build HoD. But everything depends on your team...it is a bit harder to win games solo...(which is good basically)
Any single target carry can eat sven alive like ursa. Sniper. bloodseeker. Life stealer. Blade mail lc....
But I agree...I was struggling to find counter to Naix this meta..I lost almost every game against Naix and won with him almost everything(on the original I got more than one game tho). The hope is Terrorblade or something..but you need hell of a team coop to kill him. In most pubs you just win as Lifestealer...also Sven is OUT much longer and people actually know how to deal with him...the same comes with Slark. Naix is def. OP this patch, no doubt.
Sniper is your answer q7 no joke no kappa
I personally have not played a game where sven has taken over the game and become unkillable. Mirana is a decent counter to sven because with her aghs she can deal over 1000 magic damage and leap allows her to get away if sven tries to jump on her.
But sniper sucks since you can easily gank him all the time - squishy, no escape...just you need to be farmed Sniper to counter Naix.... Terrorblade seems much more solid counter to Naix. So any other ideas how to counter Naix? :D
Lone druid. Pa. Ta. Enchantress. Naga....
Sniper is the easiet one. You just need positioning. Wich is simply as stand behind your pudge or bristle back and shoot him. Its so hard for naix to kill a good sniper cuz he simply needs to kill 4 armed hero to get his hands on sniper. Ofc he will be dead before reaching sniper
Ah non BKB piercing and dijointable stun is a better abyssal blade? You are a fucking retard.
Cleave passive is better than +60 dmg, regen and the ability to deward, demine, cut trees and do more dmg to creeps to excel farm a lot? You are a fucking retard.
AC with armor reduction, attackspeed, armor and aura + an item that gives attackspeed, movementspeed and stats are inferior to a skill that gives movementspeed and armor? You are a fucking retard.
yeah because it's useless
So we are going to completely ignore the fact that he relies on farm, can be easily kited, shutdown and is ult dependant which makes him really shit in lategame.
Srsly, can you just shut your mouth and stop making retarded threads about heroes you clearly don't understand?
^a good one
just kite him...
Pick Shadow Deamon, buy aghs or just pick beast master. BM is a good off lane too. What's so hard about stopping Sven?? He is an all around solid hero. Granted he become OP with echo saber but so does Pudge with aghs, Ather lens. So should we rework Pudge too??
My point is a good hero WILL BECOME OP with a good item. That doesn't mean he should be reworked or nerfed.
Also comparing AM to sven is as retarded as it gets. What the hell is wrong with you people?
Sven NEEDS farm in order to be effective. Sven has to join his team and has to dish out damage. If you don't have farm you fall behind and get rolled over. END OF STORY.
AM is COMPLETELY different. If you contest an AM lane with a stong duallane, am will simply splitpush and prolong the game until he has enough farm to join the fights and roll over the enemy. His mobility, natural high attackspeed due ti low bat and tankyness with spellshield makes it really easy for AM to splitpush and create space for himself. While sven players jerk around the map with underfarmed teammates so they can feed or try to smoke and hope on mistakes.
pick viper ez mode
spectre and nightstalker fucks him
lifestealer anti tank hero can dudge stun
qop so much nuke....
even crystal maiden is strong aganist sven
^
^
The entire post is so much shit
I know I'm really Infamous. Whats your problem dude. Fu
SPROUTED
ive been playing sven lately, it's fun, especially when your team had a lich , your amor in minute 30 is just +31 all the time
ur 2nd thread whining bout sven again
if u are a carry and so worried about that stun then get an item called linken's sphere
if u are a support then u r fooked anyway