General Discussion

General Discussion1k games are harder than 3k.

1k games are harder than 3k. in General Discussion
Tribo

    why do people bump this thread
    we already kno' 2ks are better than 1ks and 3ks combined

    SayingPleaseHelps

      Pick PA. start with a QBlade, and 2 salves, ask for 2 tangoes and go mid

      Or if you want to win start with stout shield, q blade, 2 pooled tangoes, a gg branch and slippers. Courier a salve if you need it, or magic stick based on opponent. Build wraith bands and bring regen as required.

      The core of the question was "how do I beat trigger-happy mid claimants to getting mid", but yeah, if i get to be mid it's stout+quelling and ferry regen for sure. Why slippers+branch and not quad branch though? Most of the times I would want a wand as mid PA anyways, wouldn't I?

      @OP

      New day, another loss because my team are completely braindead fucking 1ks and the other team is full of smurfs. https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4268951301

      Yes, the full smurf enemy team, for sure. Full jungling LC with passive+heal maxed, blink before boots, obviously a smurf.
      Mid Lycan who maxed wolves and never got any mana regen yet somehow won vs your PA. Must be Miracle- alt.
      Solo offlane Slark with full wand -> Treads -> Shadowblade progression, because who needs some early stats. Definitely smurf.
      Morphling with Adaptive strike first skilled at lvl 4. The hero is even blue himself, what more indication do you need, ffs.
      Grimstroke support with boots+tango starting items, obviously a high level League of Legends player.

      You are correct about your team being competely braindead 1k shitters though, you did build Phase on PA after all.

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      '96 Neve Campbell

        Yes, the full smurf enemy team, for sure. Full jungling LC with passive+heal maxed, blink before boots, obviously a smurf.
        Mid Lycan who maxed wolves and never got any mana regen yet somehow won vs your PA. Must be Miracle- alt.
        Solo offlane Slark with full wand -> Treads -> Shadowblade progression, because who needs some early stats. Definitely smurf.
        Morphling with Adaptive strike first skilled at lvl 4. The hero is even blue himself, what more indication do you need, ffs.
        Grimstroke support with boots+tango starting items, obviously a high level League of Legends player.

        You are correct about your team being competely braindead 1k shitters though, you did build Phase on PA after all

        The lycan was a fucking smurf are you stupid? You really think anyone in this bracket even knows what helm of the dominator is? Look at their account, its literally just full of them climbing medals and getting rampages as heros that no 1k has even played before.These past 2 days have been completely filled with smurfs its fucking insane! Another game just now as Viper where the Huskar was a blatant account booster. This bracket is sick and I am wondering why I even waste my time playing solo ranked when it rly is just a cancerous experience thats decided at the start of the game if ur lucky enough to get an account booster on your team or if they are on the enemy side instead... for some reason though I never get these smurfs on my side.... my team is comprised of 4 shitters all the time as if by law.

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        SayingPleaseHelps

          The lycan was a fucking smurf are you stupid

          I watched the replay, are you fucking stupid? Lycan never used creep aggro, never baited last hits, has no idea when to use his ult, maxed wolves yet never bought any mana regen (you helpfully provided all the mana necessary by spamming your skills against a wand) and dominator+necrobook is actually what's in the guide for the hero. It's exactly the way you build deso bkb and basher on PA even in the clear bfury games - follow the guide blindly. Does lycan have fast rank progression? Yes, but it's rank progression in guardian, you can legit gain 10% winrate there by learning one new trick. Which confirms you belonging there, btw.

          my team is comprised of 4 shitters all the time as if by law
          it's five shitters, and yes, it is by law, the law of nature.

          To be fair, the Huskar one does look like somebody purchased a boosting service or sold their account for boosting. His gameplay has shitty mechanics though and he's a jungling Huskar. It is possible the guy just found a hero that works and spammed the shit out of it.

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          '96 Neve Campbell

            The lobbies are legit getting worse. Just played a game where we literally could have ended and the fucking drow ranger goes and hits the bot rax instead of the ancient

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            ubica

              I did tell you, forget the damn teammates, pretend they aint there.

              AND UNFORTUNATELY YES 1K IS ALWAYS FILLED WITH SMURFS CAPS

              Thats kind of why meepo and slark are so good for boosting... You're fed? You will literally kill anybody that defends their throne in tbqt aituation and bruteforce it down quickly. Intelligence cores like storm qop tinker kinda struggle to so this alone.

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              eXcel

                If you think 1k is filled with smurf and boosters, try 5k. That’s a rank people actually want and what’s worse is you also meet people going the other way; ie account buyers who have been boosted to 5k but really don’t deserve it.

                You can always tell coz they tend to be immortals with no rank and who spam a position 5 support and still lose 75% of the time.

                ubica

                  Thats true , smurfs and acc buyers are everywhere... In 1k its extremely evident though - any smurf will demolish newbies if not for other smurfs, in higher ranks its a bit more fair - if you have the better supports in the team the smurf can definitely, and id say even is likely to lose - they are usually overconfident and are actually killable. unless we are talking immortal player in 3-4k.

                  (3.6k mmr range is just loaded with new accounts climbing up, but thats also fair because everyone smurfs)

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                  SayingPleaseHelps

                    Except there are comparatively few ppl in 5k so acc buyers are noticeable, and in 1k boosters are a much more rare occasion. Memorable, but rare. And the majority of cases that the OP pointed out are not smurfs. But sure, let's blame our failures on smurfs that 4/9 times happen to be on your own team.

                    eXcel

                      The core of the question was "how do I beat trigger-happy mid claimants to getting mid", but yeah, if i get to be mid it's stout+quelling and ferry regen for sure. Why slippers+branch and not quad branch though? Most of the times I would want a wand as mid PA anyways, wouldn't I?

                      Slippers for wraith band number 1. I’d recommend quad branches for safe lane coz you won’t see the courier as much but mid should build to the first stat item.

                      Getting wand in mid is highly situational too; the item is essentially trash unless you’re against a spammer (Zeus, sky, PA). Aside from those I’d probably skip it altogether on mid.

                      ubica

                        how do you even win when all lanes are lost and enemy have heroes to deal with you

                        DC.MASON

                          you wait for enemy to overextend and throw
                          or just lose, it happens and often there's not much you can do

                          Feachairu

                            say putanginamombobogagocykablyat

                            SayingPleaseHelps

                              Getting wand in mid is highly situational too; the item is essentially trash unless you’re against a spammer (Zeus, sky, PA). Aside from those I’d probably skip it altogether on mid.

                              Aren't you supposed to be more active as a mid PA though? As in rotating to fight at every opportunity? And wand is useful there. If not that, how do you replenish mana with aquila gone and clarities nerfed? Ppl seem to favor deso build instead of bfury, it has no mana trickle. Do you get Vlads or smth?

                              varjager

                                The lobbies are legit getting worse. Just played a game where we literally could have ended and the fucking drow ranger goes and hits the bot rax instead of the ancient

                                While i'm chillin' with AA in the 3k bracket getting carried.

                                https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4269120769

                                Life aint fair.

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                                eXcel

                                  Aren't you supposed to be more active as a mid PA though? As in rotating to fight at every opportunity? And wand is useful there. If not that, how do you replenish mana with aquila gone and clarities nerfed? Ppl seem to favor deso build instead of bfury, it has no mana trickle. Do you get Vlads or smth?

                                  There's too many situational aspects to that to answer things straight.

                                  In general, I'd not really recommend rotating to fight at every opportunity on almost any mid unless you're something like skywrath where your first and biggest power spike comes early (4x nulls + kaya) and doesn't really get much better than that as the game progresses. Of course, if there's a good opportunity like low HP enemies diving or whatever then yes rotate, but PA functions as a carry so getting your WBs + BF components is more valuable in the long run than saving your supports ass as their position 3 dives - particularly as you're not guaranteeing yourself a kill.

                                  Wand no longer gives you anything objectively beneficial aside from charges (no regen) which only work when you're fighting, so I guess if you're being forced to fight a lot then you could make an argument for wand but a single WB will give you much more than a wand.

                                  You should only need to replenish mana if you're constantly fighting, which could make vlad's situationally good. It's a better item all around now that it's component pieces are cheaper to buy and games are averaging less time than before. I'd say you could look at getting it if you have another hard carry in pos 1.

                                  It's allllllll situational though with those questions.

                                  SayingPleaseHelps

                                    Always suspected this whole deso first thing was a scam, with new phantom strike bfury is just too good to pass on. Antimage level farm, here I come! If I manage to snag midlane that is.

                                    ubica

                                      but at the same time going bfury means you dont have deso!
                                      and if you go bfury deso competent teams will win against you because no bkb and rekd

                                      SayingPleaseHelps

                                        Why would I want a deso if I got an early bfury? Not joking here.

                                        '96 Neve Campbell

                                          Bfury really isnt that good an item, yes it helps with farm but there are cheaper items that enable you to farm at a similar pace. Bfury is a 4400 gold item and what does it really provide a PA with that you cant get from cheaper items? Theres a reason why Bfury has the lowest winrate of any 4000+ gold item in the game and its because it fucks up your early/mid game. As a PA you can get so much more done with a desolator and a bash than you can with a Bfury. Dont get me wrong though Bfury is deffo worth picking up in like 3/5 games, especially if you are getting strong early farm and the enemy team has late game, but honestly I would say MoM/Vlads enables you to farm almost as fast as Bfury for less than half the gold, and MoM gives you more kill potential than a battle fury.

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                                          DC.MASON

                                            tidebringer on that green immortal sword is impossible to see

                                            SayingPleaseHelps

                                              Bfury is a 4400 gold item and what does it really provide a PA with that you cant get from cheaper items

                                              Well, if you were capable of reading you would have noticed that a focal point of my question was how do you get mana regen to maintain your farming speed (spamming phantom strike). Aquila is gone, clarities are nerfed into the ground, Vlads is situational, Drums are outright bad with how good WB are and casual Basi is not enough to justify the slot. So here comes Bfury to the rescue. Combined with PT switching you can maintain your spam indefinitely, but sure thing, I saw your mana "management", of course you would think it irrelevant.

                                              MoM gives you more kill potential than a battle fury
                                              Yeah, sure thing, let me silence a hero with two 5 second cooldowns for 8 seconds, I just wanna go feed some more down mid. Oh, sorry, I forgot, you actually build Phase on PA, so it all makes sense.

                                              ubica

                                                If you dont want a deso its finebut its a choice, kill potential against farming. You need to k ow when to go for which and going for the wrong choice may lose you games. If you need early.pressure deso may be better.

                                                EX Crusader player

                                                  You can clearly see why is she's 1k mmr just out of reading the stuff she wrote in her last post.

                                                  Oh well. What did I expect.

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                                                  '96 Neve Campbell

                                                    Lmao the meta used to be phase boots and I would be lying if I said I realised it changed, but whatever I will build treads instead, the difference is relatively minimal. Mana is a non-issue on PA, the only spells you will use whilst your farming can be covered by clarities that cost 50g each. Vlads isnt super situational at all, Its decent in a lot of scenarios and as I said Bfury is worth getting like 3/5 times anyway but you will just fucking talk out ur ass and argue about anything anyway so theres not much point in talking to you

                                                    EX Crusader player

                                                      Solid 1k MMR advices. Would you mind giving us some more input, because I need some 1k mmr wisdom in my life!

                                                      '96 Neve Campbell

                                                        Hm yes I am sure you are so much better than I am at Phantom Assassin, its not like I have a 61% win rate and practically spam that hero

                                                        '96 Neve Campbell

                                                          I must be a crap judge of character cause I thought you were a reasonable person but you are actually a little shit lol.

                                                          Oh btw I love how your climb in solo has completely halted at Crusader III... even I managed to get past that ;(

                                                          Vandal

                                                            If only 3k was as easy as 1.6k :(

                                                            EX Crusader player

                                                              I must be a crap judge of character cause I thought you were a reasonable person but you are actually a little shit lol.

                                                              Could say the same about you, because I actually liked you.

                                                              Oh btw I love how your climb in solo has completely halted at Crusader III... even I managed to get past that ;(

                                                              I've had some rough games, but at least I don't blame anyone but me. But thanks for motivation. Tonight I'll post Crusader 4, to make you happy, and during the weekends you'll meet Archon badge, for sure. :)

                                                              SayingPleaseHelps

                                                                If what you are saying is you can only manage to get Bfury sufficiently early 3/5 times I can believe that. However, there is quite literally no scenario where you need to pressure early. PA is not an early timing hero, she can duke it out in the lategame, even against the likes of Void/Spectre/Dusa. Clarities are fking horrendous now, and if you ever tried them you would have noticed that you lose mana with a clarity active while farming. Clarities are once again where they belong - regening supports between roams. Too bad the rest of the game is still in the 2-1-2 meta.

                                                                Vandal

                                                                  but clarities are good to bait noobs
                                                                  OMG LETS DEACTIVE HIS THINGY

                                                                  '96 Neve Campbell

                                                                    If what you are saying is you can only manage to get Bfury sufficiently early 3/5 times I can believe that. However, there is quite literally no scenario where you need to pressure early. PA is not an early timing hero, she can duke it out in the lategame, even against the likes of Void/Spectre/Dusa.
                                                                    I have no problems with timing Bfury, and PA is NOT a super late game hero! PA is a midgame powerhouse, she does more between the 15-20m mark when you have a deso and level 2 crit that literally any other carry in the game! If you are matched against a Spectre of a Medusa you need to end that game before 30m which is perfectly easy as a PA but not necessarily if you get a Bfury...

                                                                    EX Crusader player

                                                                      Woah. More 1k mmr wisdom. This is very good. The amount of confidence she dishes out is just insane. Haha.

                                                                      varjager

                                                                        And i thought PA was THE carry right now, she pretty much wrecks through all stages without any big cooldowns except BKB.
                                                                        When someone in my team picks PA i feel quite confident that we can beat any lategame carry. AM is still my nemesis but with PA in team she just crits that fucker back to fountain.

                                                                        (I hate to play against AM way more than any other carry)

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                                                                        ubica

                                                                          battlefury has it's weaknesses yes - it also got strenghts. in the average pub game, the strengths of being able to scale into lategame easily quite outweigh the weaknesses.

                                                                          while what violet sais is true in theory, in practice you might have to go late regardless and then battlefury will work magic.

                                                                          '96 Neve Campbell

                                                                            Woah. More 1k mmr wisdom. This is very good. The amount of confidence she dishes out is just insane. Haha.
                                                                            Woah. lets just all throw around useless insults instead of having a constructive discussion about a hero... Its well known that PA is a midgame powerhouse, yea she transitions to late game fairly well but all her power spikes come between 10-30m and you know its fucking true. However in the current state of the game I am fairly sure a PA beats almost anything late anyway (but spec isnt one of those things)

                                                                            Also RE: Mask of Madness. There isnt much reason not to get it. It enables you to clear out jungle pretty fast, it enables you to push early towers quicker, it gives you higher kill potential (this is the 1-2k bracket where people rarely group early so the silence is irrelevent since you have already failed as a PA if your target isnt dead within 5s). Not only that but MoM can literally be disassembled in order to build into a Satanic later on in the game.

                                                                            ubica

                                                                              anyway, on topic, you may want deso because it is cheaper and it helps you kill high value targets (if the enemy has any). l would myself go deso 1st and if i get kills and have enemy flashfarmer then go bfury from the kill gold, match them in splitpush and farm my bkb/abyssal; else just go bfury and farm.

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                                                                              ubica

                                                                                and mom is really bad if enemy has high damage killers who are ahead and will try to hunt you (such as shadow fiend or slark; in which case you go desolator if you think you can kill them, and battle fury if you will just farm your way to a win).

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                                                                                SayingPleaseHelps

                                                                                  Mask of Madness ... gives you higher kill potential
                                                                                  If 120 bonus aspd in not enough for you and you need more aspd to get some fat kills it might be the right time to get some +dmg. The thing that Bfury gives you while also allowing you to never need regen and providing the best farm speed of all items in the game.

                                                                                  PA 6-slot is basically unbeatable by Spectre, what are you even talking about, I though it was your specialisation hero? Don't forget to include Manta and Satanic in your 6-slot though.

                                                                                  ubica

                                                                                    mask of madness is probably good if enemy doesnt have many physical damage dealers though... if nobody punishes you for inflicting -armor upon yourself, it's definitely a good buy because it also gives movement speed to chase and farm.

                                                                                    '96 Neve Campbell

                                                                                      Spec is beatable if you itemise for it with manta and satanic yes, but a good spectre player will beat a good pa player

                                                                                      varjager

                                                                                        From my experience Spectre is trash when it comes to dealing with other carrys, Spectre doesnt build to manfight she build to teamfight.
                                                                                        PA should have ended the game before Spectre become relevant enough to wreck havoc in teamfights.

                                                                                        ubica

                                                                                          pa isnt that good imo anyway, sure its nice when you get to the point of abyssal bkb jumping enemy nukers and noone else to deal with you, but honestly i think she is overrated and relatively easy to deal with in the midlane.

                                                                                          if i had to chose 1 hero to carry 1ks with, it wouldn't be pa.

                                                                                          at this point everyone knows pa can carry and will focus disables on her.

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                                                                                          SayingPleaseHelps

                                                                                            Guys, for real, what items should Spec have to win a manfight with correct PA itembuild? Go test some combinations in a lobby and report back, coz PA is a spec counter for a reason.

                                                                                            eXcel

                                                                                              Mask of Madness sucks as an item way more than people tend to think. PA has spammable spells so self silence does not help.

                                                                                              BF is, of course, situational and if you have another late game carry in safelane and you're mid on PA then you can overlook it for other items, including vlads. PA in pos 1, however, should go BF if your team doesn't have a Magnus.

                                                                                              Stop trash talking each other, you're all wrong to an extent.

                                                                                              eXcel

                                                                                                Guys, for real, what items should Spec have to win a manfight with correct PA itembuild? Go test some combinations in a lobby and report back, coz PA is a spec counter for a reason.

                                                                                                Silver edge, blademail, sheep-stick as extension items all do the trick.

                                                                                                cartel

                                                                                                  dagon eblade hex veil

                                                                                                  Vandal

                                                                                                    Doesn't TB wreck both PA and Spectre late?

                                                                                                    '96 Neve Campbell

                                                                                                      Doesn't TB wreck both PA and Spectre late?
                                                                                                      yeah he does, I pick TB as a direct counter to Spectre, less so against PA. A PA with the triple dagger and bfury can do significant damage to your illusions but Spectre gets destroyed by TB. TB is a direct counter to most 'problem' carries tbh. Good against Spectre, PA, Anti-Mage and Luna. Also works well against anything that needs a late game cause you can just fast push and end in 25m and it cripples illusion based heros and natural manta builders such as Chaos Knight and Naga. Sometimes I wonder why I dont spam Terrorblade ritualistically in solo.

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