Pub Tier List 6.85
Two weeks have passed since 6.85 has been released and the dust has settled enough for us to do a 6.85 Pub Tier List.
As always, our Tier List is based on the pub Win Rate of the heroes and tries to analyse what changes to the game introduced in the latest patch have had the biggest impact. The Blog Post will be divided into six Tiers and will discuss the most interesting changes in each of them.
Tier 1: Pub Stompers (56%+)
Omniknight, 
Spectre, 
Abaddon, 
Necrophos, 
Ursa, 
Wraith King, 
Riki, 
Undying, 
Zeus
Spectre received what we initially assumed will be a nerf to the hero. The rework on Dispersion makes her quite weaker against high-armor targets in the mid-late game, but it is a lot more potent against low-armor targets.
Additionally it allows Spectre to be a lot more flexible when it comes to items. Previously going for survivability meant 
Heart of Tarrasque or 
Eye of Skadi, as flat increases in resistances made her passive a lot less potent. Currently items such as 
Assault Cuirass can provide a lot more benefits, as well as any aura armor/magic resistance items your teammates might have.
The Desolate changes allow her for an extra last hit under the tower and make her jungling a little bit faster, but it is otherwise not a big deal, unless you go for an early jungling build (which I've seen work well, but do not recommend personally).
Couple it with a cheaper 
Radiance and a 2% increase in Win Rate becomes understandable.
Ursa received a very strong rework a couple of patches ago which allowed him to go for DPS items instead of survivability - something that made his late-game weaker in previous patches. In 6.85, Ursa received a small nerf to his Str gain, but a couple of strong cooldown reductions on Earthshock (Q) and Enrage (R), with multiplier nerfs to the latter.
The net effect is negligeble - his Win Rate has been fluctuating around the same ~58.5%. And for anyone playing Ursa in pubs it should be good news, since the hero is quite strong throughout the game.
He is also known for being able to take a very early Roshan and with the current nerfs to 
Medallion of Courage and 
Solar Crest it can provide a strong strategic advantage.
Riki is in a rather weird spot right now when it comes to identifying his role. Receiving a strong regeneration buff to his permanent invisibility in 6.85, he can now be a really strong roaming offlaner/support akin to 
Bounty Hunter with better scaling but without the benefits of extra gold from Track. What makes it weird is that changes in 6.85 did not subtract anything from his carry potential.
The net results is an impressive 2% Win Rate increase, qualifying him for the first Tier of heroes.
If previously my advice would be something along the lines of "just get detection", with the changes it is now close to impossible to get rid of him in the lane, unless you kill him fast. More importantly, it is impossible to have all lanes covered with detection - with an innate health regeneration the hero can allow himself to roam wherever he wants to and can put a great toll on the supports.
And setting up kills as Riki on mobile targets is easier - unlike Bounty Hunter, he has a built-in silence, making him a bigger threat to 
Queen of Pain, 
Storm Spirit, 
Morphling and other heroes which rely on spells to survive the mid lane.
Tier 2: Pub Winners (52-56%)
Crystal Maiden, 
Lich, 
Warlock, 
Vengeful Spirit, 
Slardar, 
Venomancer, 
Dazzle, 
Centaur Warrunner, 
Chaos Knight, 
Silencer, 
Medusa, 
Luna, 
Elder Titan, 
Spirit Breaker, 
Witch Doctor, 
Jakiro, 
Sven, 
Disruptor, 
Shadow Shaman, 
Earthshaker, 
Ogre Magi, 
Mirana, 
Treant Protector, 
Night Stalker
Chaos Knight is arguably one of the strongest carries in the game. When it comes to raw damage output he absolutely eclipses any other hero when attacking a single target with a potential 500% DPS increase from his ultimate alone.
That comes with a downside of not being able to farm fast while being extremely dependent on items to be effective. In the 6.82-6.83 era, it would've been a huge problem, but ever since the gold earned from Creeps/Neutrals has been nerfed and the gold from Kills/Assists has been buffed, the hero has been gaining momentum which blew up with the armor decreasing properties the hero has received in 6.85.
From what I've seen using the guides page, a lot of higher level players now get an early value point in the ability. I am not a big fan of RNG or even PRNG in the games, but in this case no risk aversion of a rational agent should stop you from getting this value point - the potential payout is massive, especially early in the game.
Elder Titan is a very underused hero in my opinion. His gameplay revolves around allowing his teammates to deal tons of damage but the effect is rarely noticed. Not because it is negligible, but because it does not produce visual cues on enemies. If his aura ever gets a graphic representation, his Pick Rate in pubs is going to skyrocket.
The latest patch has not buffed him in what I assume to be his biggest strength, but rather made him a little less mana starved as well as making his level 1 Ancestral Spirit buff him a lot more. This change, I think, does not necessarily make him a better offlaner - the role he has been played in previously, but rather a better hero for early skirmishes - with decent starting HP and Armor (606/3) he can be really strong in a trilane vs trilane situations, despite being melee.
It will certainly take some time and professional players coverage for the hero to get noticed once again, but he is definitely on the right track and has the potential of becoming the next 
Tusk.
Lich is a rather boring hero, but it does not mean he is not useful. His versatility as well as potential for decent XP swings make him invaluable in teams which are revolved around late-game.
Additionally, providing every teammate with extra armor and AS slow on enemies ensures his potential later in the game, while the BKB piercing mini-stun from Chain Frost can make him invaluable in 
Enigma and 
Bane matchups.
With the latest patch, the hero has gained 2.5% Win Rate and was played in several professional matches - he is certainly a hero to look out for in the upcoming tournaments.
Tier 3: Average Pubbers (49-52%)
Phoenix, 
Dark Seer, Enigma, 
Doom, 
Shadow Fiend, 
Viper, 
Tidehunter, 
Juggernaut, 
Lycan, 
Drow Ranger, 
Pudge, 
Death Prophet, 
Troll Warlord, 
Legion Commander, 
Slark, 
Dragon Knight, 
Clockwerk, 
Terrorblade, 
Winter Wyvern, 
Weaver, 
Phantom Assassin, 
Tiny, 
Windranger, 
Beastmaster, 
Ancient Apparition, 
Bristleback, 
Keeper of the Light
Lycan has been in and out of the meta the most or at least it seems so. After receiving a strong jungle nerf in 2012, he was pretty much unheard of until the "deathball" meta kicked in. After that, each patch has either buffed or nerfed him, resulting in huge Win Rate and Pick Rate fluctuations.
His recent changes have not been as drastic as some of the previous ones, but buffs to str gain coupled with critical chance buffs have made him a much stronger direct confrontation hero - something he lacked, instead of generally opting for strong split-push.
With the current Win Rate of 51.08%, I think he is one of the more solid heroes, which has the ability to take out Roshan early, farm jungle quite effectively and be slightly above average when it comes to teamfight and pushing allowing for high versatility.
Phantom Assassin has received countless indirect nerfs. The introduction of 
Silver Edge not only made it more difficult to focus down some heroes, but has also taken away quite a huge chunk of the hero's strength.
Receiving an interesting buff to the Stifling Dagger, however, did not seem to make her a lot more viable with a miniscule Win Rate increase. What it did, however, is open up a lot of different builds revolving around the added benefits of the dagger.
While it might seem gimmicky and unreliable at first, the fact is - you do not sacrifice a lot of resources for the chance at doing something really strong, such as critting or bashing with a dagger. Additionally, for the first time, the hero has received a long-range interrupt, if going for a 
Monkey King Bar. Personally, I am not a big fan of RNG, but in certain matchups a 40% chance of interrupting a big channeling spell is better than 0%.
Overall, the hero seems like a good pick for the meta, despite a somewhat poor Win Rate. With a sudden switch to more right-click oriented plays, Blur has once again become a potent passive.
Legion Commander received a great deal of different buffs in 6.85 and is approaching a very playable state. In fact, her Win Rate has increased by 1.5% and she is currently closest to an "ideal" 50% Win Rate balanced hero.
When people are picking Legion Commander, I feel like they are overvaluing the buffs she gets from Duel. Best case scenario - extra 200+ damage are still rarely enough to make her a super-scary late-game carry - even with the damage, she is still easily kite-able without her ultimate.
In my opinion, she is best suited to play as the second/third core - she does not need items to be effective in this regard except for 
Blink Dagger.
Tier 4: Pub Losers (46-49%)
Brewmaster, 
Gyrocopter, 
Razor, Tusk, 
Sand King, 
Lion, 
Templar Assassin, 
Sniper, 
Invoker, 
Lifestealer, 
Kunkka, 
Phantom Lancer, 
Huskar, 
Pugna, 
Leshrac, 
Techies, 
Nyx Assassin, 
Earth Spirit, 
Anti-Mage, 
Bloodseeker, 
Faceless Void, 
Axe, Bounty Hunter, 
Alchemist
Gyrocopter has received a lot of really direct nerfs. The changes to ancients have hindered his farm the most out of all flash-farming heroes and his innate early game strengths have been nerfed as well.
What it led to is a rather underwhelming hero, which needs a lot of time to be able to clear ancients and hence, even more time to get online in full force. His previous strength was more or less fully reliant on winning the lane and going for stacks - he is a lot less effective in both regards.
What it does open up, however, is a chance for support Gyrocopter to step in. His spells are quite potent and he can be safely played in position 4 to becomes a damage dealer later in the game. He lacks reliable stun, but he can certainly turn the lives of solo heroes into a nightmare with homing missile.
Anti-Mage is currently suffering from the lack of high mana pool cores. With Storm Spirit, Leshrac and to a certain degree 
Lina falling out of meta, Anti-Mage simply doesn't have as much of an impact in every game, as he used to.
One additional problem is that he became extremely popular in the 6.84 era and people tend to be quite clingy to their favorite/flavor of the patch heroes.
He is slowly becoming less relevant in the professional scene and the pub scene will surely follow - with him becoming a situational pick once again his Win Rate is bound to rise.
Razor is a hero I have stopped understanding completely. With a huge amount of nerfs and only an incremental buff in 6.85, I feel he does not deserve an appearance in the professional matches - he is outclassed by a lot of heroes in terms of early game/late game and flash farming capabilities.
Being a great anti-carry hero, I feel he has been picked too early in most professional games, allowing for the opposing team to draft into heroes which do not suffer from reduced attack damage. His innate tankiness, as well as his item build, does very little against currently popular heroes and his pushing potential is far from what it was, since the glyph recharge change.
In his current form the hero is lackluster and is too situational to be picked early. If your team needs a carry, consider something else.
Tier 5: Pub Throwers (41-46%)
Timbersaw, Queen of Pain, Lina, Bane, 
Ember Spirit, 
Clinkz, 
Skywrath Mage, [missing hero: outworld-devourer], 
Magnus, 
Meepo, 
Visage, 
Batrider, 
Rubick, 
Naga Siren, 
Chen, Morphling, Storm Spirit, 
Nature's Prophet, 
Enchantress, 
Broodmother, 
Tinker, 
Puck, 
Lone Druid, 
Shadow Demon
Timbersaw has received some buffs in the previous patch but he also received a really strong nerf - 
Bloodstone is a really weak item right now. The biggest problem with it is the lack of AoE XP gain as well as the gold loss nerf. The hero goes in early in the fight and can die really fast.
What the Bloodstone nerf did, essentially, is take away from his strength while not necessarily nerfing the hero Leshrac as much - Leshrac rarely goes all in. A peculiar game design decision to say the least.
I think the hero will see very little play in the professional scene - he is outclassed by a lot of offlane heroes and does not get as much done later on - with his spells not going through spell immunity, he can become really useless really fast.
Lina is one of the biggest losers of this patch, yet I feel like she is still a very decent hero. Losing ~2.85% Win Rate is not surprising for the hero, with a lot of direct nerfs in terms of damage, but her strength as a quick-burst damage dealer and a sustainable right-clicker is not completely gone.
What the hero does suffer from, is that she can't exactly be called a counter-pick to anything. She is an all-around strong hero with high versatility, but it takes away from her potential of being extremely strong in certain situations. And for heroes like this, direct nerfs are the most important ones.
We will probably still see a lot of the hero being played in the pro games though.
Shadow Demon is not a bad hero, as people might assume from his Win Rate. His main weakness comes from inability of Pub Players to play him effectively - it requires a lot of team coordination as well as game understanding. As opposed to other similar heroes, however, Shadow Demon can actually tamper with what your team does - if played incorrectly he is an actual sixth enemy for your team of four.
Solving this problem will probably take a lot of time - the hero is not popular in pubs and/or professional matches to be picked often enough and provide VODs for people to learn from. Additionally, there are very few people who dedicate themselves to learning the hero - he is not exactly the most exciting hero to play.
Tier 6: Repick Heroes (<41%)
While 
Io being in this tier is unsurprising - the hero still relies heavily on the team, 
Oracle is somewhat of a new addition. And I shall explain why.
There are two types of players who play Oracle - dedicated Support players such as myself who have studied the hero and understood his strength and weaknesses, and general pub players who see Damage, Cooldown and 1.4 BAT and go crazy about it.
Until 6.85, the second type of players were... well... wrong - they could be quite effective in taking out single targets and save themselves/teammates from imminent death, but their contribution was very limited. The big problem is that this patch has catered to this crowd exactly - we have lower cooldowns, we have a lot less utility from Fate's Edict (W) and we have a hero which changed from a high-risk high-reward exciting support, to a semi-nuker with a disarm and buffed Shallow Grave on a longer cooldown.
Personally, I haven't touched the hero ever since he got "buffed" - I do not find him as exciting and interesting as he was and while I may sound as a hipster, I do care about the diversity of the game and feel like in this particular instance, the net effect is that the hero got "dumbed down" for non-dedicated players.
I feel like a lot of players similar to myself also feel betrayed with this change and have probably stopped playing the hero as well - hence a decrease in Win Rate for a hero which until the recent patch was on the same level of Overpowered as pre-6.84 Winter Wyvern.
cool ^^
Its a shame they changed oracle again.
The first changes they did, especially the ultimate nerf, were understandable.
I didnt like them, and i think he got "overnerfed", but i guess it was kinda necessary to nerf him in general.
I do NOT understand why valve decided to make him even worse when it comes to interesting opportunities and combos.
I feel like the last patch is a huge nerf for him, and makes him quite boring in addition.
But now you can use Fate's Edict + Purifying Flames x2 on lvl 2.
I've already found 4 articles claiming that bloodstone got a mana regen nerf. Why do people keep thinking that?
You should really fix that. (Under the timbersaw part)
The whole sentence sounded really confusing. I've reworded it - never meant that bloodstone was nerfed in terms of mana reg.
well well well..
PL in the Pub Losers? Yea, they fuckinly idiot. PL goes for Vlads af
icefraug 2k mmr in action
as PL and Invoker player, i dont quite agree, it depends on how u play. Maybe you can check my dotabuff profile.
Disagree about Oracle, after playing ~10 games with him so far at 4.7k mmr I get the feeling that he is a really great nuking and healing support. Kinda like a ranged Omni. I encourage you to try it out before going to the conclusion that Oracle is trash.
I don't really think the hero is trash. He is objectively weaker in pubs (hence the decrease in Win Rate), but can be a good nuker, as you said. What I feel cheated about is the Fate's Edict becoming a lot less relevant as a DPS booster and spammy fortune's end with less of an impact. Kinda feels like it is from *that* game rather than from Dota(
"Personally, I am not a big fan of RNG, but in certain matchups a 40% chance of interrupting a big channeling spell is better than 0%."
Come on, if you put your mouse over mkb, 4 cm on the left of this, it highlight a 35% xD.
pfff, who fix leshrac? ~50 damage from 3 skill, and then?He is very powerful hero, because he hasn't any escape, he one of the best DPS hero in dota, but his 1 problem - antimage + huskar(I play leshrac ~2 hours ago, 8 0 7 , some kills I gift to my friend)
Блять а где по русски?
I dont think i have lost once with the new oracle - yeah was made a little simpler but that does not mean he is weaker. He does need experience tho, so i tend to run him in solo / dual offlane. His level 7 and maxed purifying flames is just too strong right now, he basicly has the same nuking power as a lina on a much lower cooldown.
Lol riki have 2% winrate increase cuz of zero-cooldown diffusal blade - If he buyed diffusal, then dusts are useless so u should use gem of sentries.
and oracle should be played with team:
a) 2,5 root every 8,5 secounds (6 cd + 2,5 chanelling) is really amaizing
b) His ulti is much better than grave because it's almost total anti-control for your teammate
Hero with such abilities can't be in Tier 6 section...
I agree with the article on oracle. The unit is boring, broken, and has now lost most of his synergy with units like PA and sniper. Its almost like a crappy version of Omni Knight.
It'd be more useful to see the win rate of a hero in every bracket
cuz Heroes like queen,ember and meepo are definitely not tier 5
Um... why is someone in "Normal Skill" and "High Skill" games allowed to write these analyses?
Doom Pick/Win rate skyrocketed and he didn't got mentioned .-.
the simpler the hero is to play, the higher the winrate..
@BD Because they got tired of waiting for your submission! No seriously, if you write something of good quality like this, they might post it.
Hey,
I assume this is ranked + pub stats but is there a way to only get ranked stats above a certain mmr lets say 4.1k ?
would be nice to know thanks
Pub losers Faceless void wtf?
More like pub destroyer he absolutely destroys pubs if you get a good 20 min farm
at about 30 mins i have my boots mom mkb & dae enough to destroy nearly anything,coupled along with his chrono semi detection he's an absolute pub destroyer as long as you tell yuor team what you will be doing and actaully know how to play him well
You can't take that seriously in every aspect, hero picks are extremely situational, so if a pick is good even the "worst" heroes can be amazing.
A lot of low Winrate heroes are really strong, but some/most people just don't know how to play them (IO, Oracle, QOP,...)
@KawaiiSocks
Is it possible to do one for higher mmr games only? or atleast Very high skill+?
We are considering these. Personally, I would really like to work on something like that, since I feel like a lot of these stats do not represent my games particularly well and cater for average players instead. It doesn't mean the insights are wrong, but the stats would look very different when it comes to "hard to master" heroes.
Enchantress certainly not pub thrower.On the contrary she can be a free win
Can we just take the 1,2, and 3k's out of the equation?
They just awful,runing the society,trolling and just straight up retards that feed
Fv is pretty easy just jung for 20 mins staright make some rotations here and there and its a near 100% win even if your whole team already dc'ed
lol ta in pub losers. which idiot made this?
I wanna comment on the timbersaw part.
I think most people just dont understand how timbersaw is best played, the post explaned that timbersaw is "outclassed" by other offlaners and cant get much done later on. Although I agree that he is useless when the opponent team got their BKB's, it doesnt mean he cant wait a bit and go for their non BKB supports or teamates. And I see alot of players using timbersaw as a tanker, yes I do agree that he is quite tanky given points into his passive and having an early bloodstone, but I like to play him as a full on nuker, even with late game, 2 chakrams have really huge damage, with only an 8 sec cooldown, and I remind you the cooldown starts as soon as you deploy those chakrams not when the chakrams return. Fix him up with an aghs and octarine and he is really unstoppable, dont forget blink dagger aswell, really usefull and could make him one of the hardest hero to kill.
Point is, Timbersaw is my favorite hero and I have a 71% win rate with this hero, 117 wins. It saddens me to see timbersaw having only about 5% in pick rate and I think about a 45% win rate. If people really practiced this hero and memorized every tree in the map, lol, he coulld be the next pubstomper, being really strong in early, mid n lategame in my opinion.
@h4voc he's going off of win rates you imbecile.
i can't really agree with lina in lesh they can still accomplish good things not as strong as before but not too far from before so in reguards really strong hero still and jug should be higher hes still really strong specially with lina being less picked
Whoever thinks Oracle got "buffed" is an idiot, straight up nerf
Currently the Enchanted Mango only has a 37.94% win rate. Although it is a challenge, together the Dota 2 Community has the ability to fix this tragedy. Please help. As gamers, we can make Dota 2 a better place.
Jesus, is everyone commenting here literally downs or what ? The categories are based on the winrate, also, the differences between skill levels are not that big (for example, PL winrate, very farm dependent carry who needs some space to come online is only 1% different between normal and very high) and last thing, the skill at which the author is, doesnt matter, as long as it's something decent, he's not commenting on his own games by any means, all he does is analysing the winrates and theorycrafting the reasons why the winrates are what they are, that's all this article is about. So please, if you dont understand what the percentage sign next to the categories means, you probably couldnt write anything even close to this.
Spectre is so OP. Yesterday, i lost 2 games against him in a row. So next, i pick him 5 times and 5 win streak with spectre. Ranked btw.
It's all just based off of winrates? Well I learned nothing
+Axyom, you are wrong. This is a pub win rates analysis and has nothing to do with claiming that it's all about win rates.
I came here to read about doom :p
ya , this article is not biased article
its analize about win rate each hero based on data at dotabuff
and try to analize that
so its quite accurate i think
its include normal-high-veryhigh (3550 - 8000 mmr++)
its an average data , not a super special data
u want to look super special data ? look at ranking section
every hero has 80%++ winrate in the right hand at the super very high skill bracket which is 5k mmr++
even i have 80% winrate on AM . and 70% winrate on PA, in this low mmr id
its not mean this article 100% false
u should wise before judge
I really expect Night Stalker to be a big game changer both in competitive and pub. The buffs on the HP regen can somewhat boost the survivability which a common choice in pubs ( as they tend to steam-roll enemies every now and then) and a nice "touch" to comptetitive due the recent buffs of NS of previous pacthes with the HP laning stages, thus making him a top pick. I think he is not a flavory hero like Pudge, WR, Invoker, SF etc.
Can Oracle's False Promise (ultimate) remove Doom's Doom (ultimate)? :3
kawaiisocks,
I initially agreed with you on the oracle front. I played him both ways, and in a way, hated the changes as well. However, after a couple of games, I agree with the changes, except for the fate's edict change (increased 50% damage from pure/physical). Try playing oracle offlane and as a support, it's actually not as bad as it was.
6.84 made him extremely fun to play, now that you can deny ranged creeps at level 3 with purifying flames, and his "buffed shallow grave" now allows your carries to give approx. 0 fucks (except against halbred :(, but they can bkb). It introduces the strategy of "my carry will die (maybe), but he will be able to do as much damage as he wants before (s)he goes"
6.85 was questionable. It does make fortune's end more flexible, which i like. However, I disagree with the fate's edict change (but kind of understand why)
Anyways, I'd like you to reconsider playing him in the current meta/patch, either mid, offlane, or support. He's super flexible and as fun as ever
How to win pub game :
Abaddon support.
kawaiisocks,
Well the thing with Fortune's End being more spammy is so that you can do 2x more QE combos, with zero cast time. Not to mention the damage got a buff, it went from 300x1 -> 180x2. It's a pretty huge buff. Fate's Edict did not get nerfed in anyway, the defensive portion of it got a nice buff so that you can cast it on allies now without fear of them being attacked. Saying a hero has low winrate =/= worse hero, look at Meepo and Invoker as an example. I think Oracle is incredibly OP right now, check out my Oracle history played at 4.7-4.8k mmr.
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/94636820/matches?hero=oracle
I think that Clinkz is not played well in pub games, given the mid lane if he get orchid around the 13-15 min mark his game impact can be devastating. This update with strafe CD reduction makes pushing consecutive towers or structures a lot more easier.
mkb is 35 percent you dinguses